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I need to know more about my stamp

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Diellza
Valued Member


Albania
7 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  05:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Diellza to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message

Hi everyone

Does anybody know more about this stamp?
I know its John Macdonald, its printed on gummed side but I dont know if it worth anything.


thanks

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Puzzler
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
6372 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  06:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

This is from the Line Drawing Definitives of Prime Ministers and Queen Elizabeth II, or Caricature series of 1972-77.

The 1 cent Sir John A. MacDonald. The regular stamp (perforated on all edges from a full pane) is Scott catalogue #586.

This also came in booklet panes #586a, #586b and #586c and a single from one of these booklet panes (with a straight side such as yours) is numbered #586ci in the Unitrade Specialized Catalogue of Canada Stamps (mine is only from 2005 so newer versions may have newer information on this.)(uses Scott's numbering system).

In 2005 they only list a 'printed on gummed side' for a regular #586 stamp, priced at $900.00 CAD (Canadian Dollars) Mint Never Hinged (MNH) Very Fine grading. No mention of a used price.

This would have to be expertized by a recognized expertizing service (Greene in Canada), I would imagine, to be able to be sold.

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Puzzler
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
6372 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  06:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I forgot to say welcome! Welcome!

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Gilles le timbre
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
715 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  07:04 am  Show Profile Check Gilles le timbre's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilles le timbre to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Not sure if it is possible to be printed on the gummed side and be cancelled on the printed side....

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AnthonyUK
Pillar Of The Community


United Kingdom
1197 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  07:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AnthonyUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I'm assuming it has been soaked so does any gum exist? Wouldn't the image have disappeared too?

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Minesweeper
Valued Member


Canada
426 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  07:43 am  Show Profile Check Minesweeper's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Minesweeper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I'm also interested to know what makes you think it was printed on gum side.


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Diellza
Valued Member


Albania
7 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  07:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Diellza to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you for the info and for the welcome note :)

I inherited a large collection of stamps without much info so I will need help identifying what I have! I already obtained the scott catalogue but some of these stamps are not there (or maybe I am not seeing them).

Below is another stamp of Canada printed on gum side, anyone has any info on it?

Thanks in advance!



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jamesw
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
5355 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  07:55 am  Show Profile Check jamesw's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I think you are mistaking the tagging on these stamps for gum. Phosphorescent tagging was introduced in 1962 to facilitate the use of automatic facer-cancelling equipment. The stamps were overprinted with phosphorescent material which glows when exposed to ultraviolet light, retaining an after-glow for a few seconds once the light is removed (Unitrade)
Phosphorescent tagging was replaced with fluorescent tagging in 1972. Since 1973 stamps have been overprinted with whats called General OP2 tagging which is more noticeable to the naked eye and glows more brightly under ultraviolet light, retains no after glow.
These strips appear to be what is called a two bar inset (type 3)


Edited by jamesw - 10/04/2011 08:00 am
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rod222
Bedrock Of The Community


Australia
15567 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  09:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I would tend to agree with James,
If you soak a stamp that's been printed on the gum
a large part of the print would have been removed.

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Puzzler
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
6372 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  12:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Ah yes, the tagging. Here is a link that has a database of tagging errors (another thing to look for!) and also explanations of tagging.
http://www.adminware.ca/tagging/index.php

Mostly you must use an ultraviolet light lamp (UV lamp) mostly long wave for Canada, but the first stamps were visible under short wave like the USA uses, to see these tagging bars.

Different countries use different methods for these, sometimes all four edges are tagged, sometimes only one or two edges, sometimes shapes are tagged in the design of the stamp.

The second stamp you have shown is the Parliament buildings in Ottawa Scott catalogue #715, minimal value.

This also is listed in the cataloguie as available printed on gummed side only, but I agree, after reading the other opinions, that because the stamp is cancelled and now off paper it would have had to been soaked in water to achieve this and so, if it was indeed stuck to an envelope while gummed, the gummed side would have been the parliament side also and the back would have been cancelled.

In order to prove you have a 'printed on gummed side' stamp it would have to still be mint with gum and uncancelled because. The gum would not survive.

I did not know about these varieties myself. Thank you for asking about it.

Look and search on www.ebay.com for 'CANADA 715a NH '78 14c Parliament PRINTED ON GUM $50.00' one is listed on there now and the centering is terrible. Most of this 14c value, printed on gummed side, were with terrible centering.

A regular used stamp, which this is, would sell for about 5c or 10c, on www.ebay.com/rpp/stamps/">eBay, to pay for all the fees and time, maybe 99c but because it is so common, it would have to have something special about t to sell for this much, like a special cancel or error like the missing brick or flag pole or something.

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Diellza
Valued Member


Albania
7 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Diellza to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thanks for the replies, I did a comparison of another stamp which I believe is printed on gum side and the difference is visible. See below comparison of two 12C Canada stamps, the printing on the left stamp is not sharp and also there are traces of microfiber contamination which I believe occured as a result of touching thus heating and moisturizing the gum making it sticky. Also the difference is on the back side, the suspected gum printed stamp shows is overprinted (ink showing on the other side).

As you can see the 14c stamp which I posted earlier also has the same properties as the 12c one I am posting below (microfiber contamination, printing is not sharp, ink is visible on the back side).

Now my question is are these stamps worth certifying?

Cheers



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wert
Pillar Of The Community
Stamp Community SupporterSupporter!


Canada
2010 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  6:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Diellza

I don't know whether the stamp is printed on the gum side or the correct side...My question is if some one had this stamp and put it on an envelope and sent it trough a legal post office who placed a cancellation on it, that means some one had to use some sort of a glue adhesion to get it on the envelope in the first place...Sound strange.

Robert

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khj
Pillar Of The Community
Stamp Community SupporterSupporter!
United States
5794 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  6:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I'm sorry, Diellza, but you do not have the "printed on gum side" error.

You are not comparing the same stamp, but actually different stamps printed by different printers (BABN and CBN).

The BABN printed stamp is on glossy coated paper and the design appears very sharp. The CBN printed stamp is printed on uncoated paper, and the design is relatively rough. The coil version of the 12c stamp was printed ONLY by CBN. So the sheet version of the 12c stamp at the right is printed by BABN. There is also a sheet version of the 12c stamp printed by CBN.

You cannot compare all the stamps you mentioned in this manner because there were more than one printer and several paper types as well.

Based on the pics, I see no reason to believe you have a printed on gum side error.

My non-expert opinion. I think if you submitted for expertization, you will get roughly the same answer, but not for free.


Edited by khj - 10/04/2011 6:55 pm
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khj
Pillar Of The Community
Stamp Community SupporterSupporter!
United States
5794 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

For those of you with the Unitrade catalog:

12c sheet BABN is #714
12c sheet CBN is #714iv
12c coil CBN is #729

The printed on gum side error is #714a, and is only known on BABN (coated paper) printed stamps.

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Puzzler
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
6372 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

To start with we need someone who knows more than I (almost everyone) to tell us whether these stamps were gummed after printing (which I am assuming to be the case.

That means that the gum would have been on the side also printed with the design. Thus they would have been licked and stuck to the envelope face down and the back got cancelled.

If this happened then the cancel would probably not have made it's way down through the gum on the face of the stamp to affix itself to the actual stamp.

Or, very unlikely, the stamps had all had glue added separately by the people using the stamps and stuck down face up. Only if the stamp was soaked in water first, then reglued down, would the face have been cancelled.

The microfiber contamination you mention could possibly have come from the soaking in water of a used stamp and having the fibers from other stamps in the water shedding little bits and pieces of their paper and then also gum and what not also being dissolved into the water so that the fibers stuck to the face of the stamp.

Soak it again in clean water, rinse in a different clean water bowl, and dry and see what they look like then.

I think there are too many chances for external material to come into contact, even album pages of poor quality, and pieces to come off and adhere to the stamp.

Stamps (paper fiber) deteriorate over time and come apart all by themselves, or at least with the aide of molds and bacteria and friction with other stamps and papers.

I am no expert at this however (or most anything for that matter) and do welcome more learned opinions and better knowledge.

The stamps are common until proven otherwise and you are missing the proof that is accepted by the experts, the gum. At least it seems that way to me.

Perhaps the two 12c blue Parliament stamps are over-inked and then faded and worn on the first one, and over-soaked and scraped a bit on the second?

Even if I am completely off base in my speculations, I do not see how someone would certify these stamps as having gum on the face of the stamp when they obviously do not.

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Puzzler
Pillar Of The Community


Canada
6372 Posts

Posted 10/04/2011  7:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you KHJ for actually reading the catalogue which I was too busy being opinionated to do. !

I would like to know how does one tell if one has a stamp that has been gummed on the printed side if the gum is missing? If no guild or trade secrets will be revealed of course.

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