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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 01/01/2012   11:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add AGST to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
I just recently purchased a small quantity of stamps from the Kenmore Stamp Company. Nothing wrong with the stamps and service, except for the envelope of approvals that was included in my order. I did not ask for them and I don't want them. I sent them straight back.

My question to the forum is..... Is this normal practice? If I order from other mail order retail stamp outlets, am I likely to be sent more approvals?

Thanks

Bill
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Valued Member
United States
301 Posts
Posted 01/01/2012   11:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add panda.bear to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the likes of Kenmore, Mystic, etc? Yes. Unless you explicitly request otherwise.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
516 Posts
Posted 01/01/2012   11:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alanl to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You don`t need to send them back. You didn`t
ask for them! Let them come and pick them up
or send you a SASE.
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Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   12:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AGST to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You don`t need to send them back. You didn`t
ask for them! Let them come and pick them up
or send you a SASE.


If they send any more I will do that. They did include a return envelope without postage. Maybe I should use their own stamps to return the envelope.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   06:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rohumpy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am sure that if you read the fine print, you will see that they told you that they would send items for your examination and purchase if you wanted them. I get offers all the time for what would actually be good deals if it did not include approvals.
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United States
1128 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   07:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ncbuckeye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Be sure that you did not authorize in any previous correspondence with them for them to send approvals. If not, in the United States (only country I am knowldgeable about), if a company sends you something you did not request and you cannot return it without expense, you can treat it as a gift. Thus, if there is no return postage, it is a gift. If there is return postage and you cannot simply put it in your mail box (e.g., you would have to take it somewhere to mail - which is an expense to you - you can treat it as a gift.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   08:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i believe they include return envelopes
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   09:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rohumpy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let me make one more comment on this topic. If the original offer had, even in small print, a notice that you were going to be sent approvals, then you can't treat them as a gift. I think you may be asking for trouble if you do not return the approvals. As stampvirgin said, there will be a return envelope. Whether or not it includes return postage, I do not know.
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Posted 01/02/2012   09:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ncbuckeye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I checked with a lawyer friend. The key to this is whether or not there was an "agreement" before receiving the item(s) that such "approval" items would be sent. This would make the offer solicited. Otherwise, the recipient has a right to refuse to accept delivery of the goods
and is under no obligation to return the items EVEN IF RETURN POSTAGE/PACKAGING IS INCLUDED. Unsolicited items are deemed as a gift and the recipient may keep, use or dispose of in any manner.
Many stamp vendors will send an ad or post an ad which in very fine print will state "approvals included". If you buy the item, then you have agreed to the approval. But if you buy the item and clearly state to the vendor that approvals not agreed to, then the company cannot include approvals - but they can refuse the order.

Moral - always read the fine print
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Edited by ncbuckeye - 01/02/2012 09:31 am
Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   10:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's right. Also if you noticed they too know this too and on the first few orders they will only send very low catalog value stamps (with a HUGE markup and normally have flaws). I been dealing a very little bit with Jamestown Stamps and since I bought a stamp here or there the selection is getting a lot better but it seems the condition of said items are usually deplorable and have told them that but despite everything they continue to send them because the bottom line is I buy stuff, albeit few and far between but I have. I don't mind in fact I actually enjoy looking through them. The last bunch they said on the invoice was valued at 299.00 +/-. I made darned sure I returned it pronto! lol The condition of the big stamp company's wares is terrible and overpriced in my opinion. Education is the key when dealing with the devil.
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Edited by I_Love_Stamps - 01/02/2012 10:19 am
Valued Member
United States
73 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   1:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AGST to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the advice. I checked the Kenmore web site and went through a dummy purchase. Did not see any mention of agreeing to accept approvals. Anyway, I sent them back in their self addressed envelope, though I had to use my own stamp.

I made it clear on the enclosed form that I did not want anymore approvals sent to me. If they sent more then I shall just treat them as a 'gift'. Mind you they do have my CC details on file, so they could just charge me for them if I don't return.

we'll see what comes in the mail next.

Cheers

Bill
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Posted 01/02/2012   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ncbuckeye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just because they have your cc on file does not make it legal for them to send you unsolicited items and then charge you. Don't fall to such tricks used to get your money.
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Valued Member
United States
62 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   2:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Chief.Fontenot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This happened to me last year. I made a ill-advised purchase from them for something I couldn't find right off hand and was rather impatient about it. In the order I also received an approval card with about 25 stamps in roughly the same category of what I ordered. Along with it was an envelope (way to small to send the stamps back), but large enough for a check. I sent the envelope back with a printed piece of paper that said thanks.

Two weeks later I got another package from them with more stamps. This time about 15 stamps, but much larger stamps from various African countries. Same thing again... small envelope nothing to send the stamps back. I did the same as before and then they stopped coming to the house. I got a letter from a collections company about four months later stating I had received stamps on approval and failed to pay for them. I sent a nice letter to the collections company with my attorneys business card and a statement that I did not ask for the approval cards nor did I want them. I also sent along with this letter a printout made by my attorney about laws regarding the sending of unsolicited items and requiring payment for them. Needless to say I never got another call from them or another package in the mail. I did manage to review their purchasing agreements again and in the in really really really fine print is a statement about getting stamps on approval after a purchase.

Chief
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5491 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Two thoughts...

These big, old-line dealers have been doing this long enough that I would assume that they have their fine print in order before thinking about keeping anything as an unsolicited approval (or "gift"). Maybe a person does on occasion have them on a technicality, but I would not assume it. (And the stamps a person would be keeping are rarely worth the expenditure of time and effort necessary to be sure of your position.)

Second, even though I don't patronize the big companies, and don't really agree with their business models, it might be bad stamp karma to play these sorts of games. After all, we're all stamp people. A note back with the returns, saying "STOP! Send some again and I'm keeping them!" at least puts them on notice.

A corollary to this is, does a person really want to correspond with collection agents, or (for APS members) run the risk of being reported as a non-payer and having to respond to the inquiry? Yes, I know a few people who would like to spend some time in those dialogues, but...

My 2d.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12120 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   4:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the majority of responses, but I'd approach it a bit differently. If I received unsolicited stamps "on approval" ... and there may be an occasion when I would miss that text written into some agreement, I would kindly send the FIRST batch back along with a letter canceling the service and reminding the company that any approvals received after the date of this letter will be regarded as a gift and therefore no payment will be made and no demand can be made by your company under law.

That usually takes care of the problem.

[edit] Back in the 1970's when I was a young stamp collector and approvals were a big thing, I was made wise to some of the approval services that I didn't want, and when I saw an offer for something I wanted and no approvals were mentioned, I sent for it and along with payment included the phrase "I understand that no approvals will be sent under this offer." Most of time it worked, however, I recall once I received a very nasty letter back from a seller stating that how rude it was that I make such rules to them and they sent my money back with the unfilled order. Needless to say, I never used that firm again.
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Edited by wt1 - 01/02/2012 4:54 pm
Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 01/02/2012   5:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow WT1, I wish I knew you back when I was into approvals and went through the approval mill myself.

I usually just wrote Please Cancel Approvals on whatever paper invoice they sent and sent that and the stamps back, but I like your way much better.
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