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Need help - Japanese revenue stamps - 1901 or 1914?

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jaf72
Valued Member
14 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  2:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jaf72 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message

Can anyone tell me, with certainty, the year these were canceled? I know the month for sure is 2 (FEBRUARY) but I need the exact date.
Thanks!

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Cjd
Pillar Of The Community


United States
4863 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  2:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Don't take this to the bank, but it looks like you have the 20 sen orange and 1 yen red examples that started being issued in 1924.

Under the emperor-based calendar, year 14 of Taisho would correspond to 1925, and year 14 of Showa would correspond to 1939.

So I suspect February 1, 1925, but if other evidence on the card pointed to 1939, I'd believe that, too.

Next guesser...





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jaf72
Valued Member
14 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  3:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaf72 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

thank you Cjd. you have helped me tremendously!

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rod222
Bedrock Of The Community


Australia
15560 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

http://www.stampcommunity.org/topic...OPIC_ID=6258

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doug2222
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Stamp Community SupporterSupporter!
United States
2361 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  5:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add doug2222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Note that the date-stamp of the original document (as prepared, before the revenue stamps were bought and applied) is about 18 days earlier.

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Prahanoaki
Valued Member


Japan
129 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  10:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Prahanoaki to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I agree with Cjd. Unfortunately, the postmark is 3 stars postmark. This makes it impossible to determine 100%. 3 stars postmarks were used only for transactions inside the post office, not for cancelling letters, except during WW2 (especially in the occupied land) and little after it. Usually in the bottom row, there is a time frame instead of stars. How they divide those time frames helps to determine the period of use. For example, if the time frame shows you "PM 0-3", it means it is between Taisho 2 and Showa 5 (1913-1930). From december 1930 the time frame changed to AM 0-8, AM 8-12, PM 0-4, PM 4-8 and PM 8-12.
Another way to determine is by the postal rate,but in this case, it is a revenue stamp. 3yen 60sen seems awfully lot for a 1924 duty. It corresponds roughly about present rate 180USD. If the duty is 10% it means that the declared value of the parcel is 1800USD. BUT! if you see the signature of the recipient, you see it is not for personal purpose but commercial one. Dai Do shoji(merchant) KK (kabushiki Gaisha/Co., Ltd. "G" of Gaisha is a phonetic liaison so it is "k" when you spell it in japanese, therefore "KK") , so I guess it is very possible. I think it would be fair to say likely 1924 like Cjd mentioned. The value of 3yen 60sen in 1939 in present rate is roughly 45 to 50USD in case you are wondering.

now to the next guesser..


Edited by Prahanoaki - 10/13/2012 10:10 pm
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jorgesurcl
Pillar Of The Community


Chile
551 Posts

Posted 10/13/2012  11:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jorgesurcl to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

OK. in Japanese postmark's the script reads from right to left.
The last number (at left) is the year under emperor-base calendar.

KEIOU Era : 1864 + left number
MEIJI Era : 1867 + left number
TAISHO Era: 1911 + left number
SHOWA Era : 1925 + left number
HEISEI Era: 1988 + left number

This is a first day cancel (HEISEI Era) : 9.5.30



So is 30-5-1988+9 = 30 May 1997

I'm right?


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Prahanoaki
Valued Member


Japan
129 Posts

Posted 10/14/2012  01:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Prahanoaki to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

jorgesurcl,
Well done! Your table makes things much easier!
But I would like add one thing. I forgot from exactly which year but from the end of 1960's to 1979, there was few types of postmark using western dating system: day/month/western year.

16th november 1970 Sapporo. The first one is called: Tanpagata-yokogaki-gengo nashi, literally meaning short wave type-horizontal writing-without japanese year




18th may 1970 Numazu. The second one is called: waobun kikai hizukein, meaning Japano European writing machine cancel. In fact it is a meter stamp.



Those are few exceptions but otherwise your table apply and works very well! As far as I know, I do not know any Japanese postmark using western dating system after 1979.

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Partime
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United States
1215 Posts

Posted 10/14/2012  02:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I find this to be a fascinating discussion as I never paid much attention to the dates in my Japanese stamps. However, I had to take another look.

I did find a meter stamp with a slightly later date (June 12, 1999).



I then located a letter in my collection from a Japanese Pharmacy to the US Vitamin Corporation. The postmark on the front appears to be 11-10-36 (November 10, 1936) and this is confirmed by the US postmark on the back. It looks like there were isolated cases of Western Postal Date systems even earlier than 1960.








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Prahanoaki
Valued Member


Japan
129 Posts

Posted 10/14/2012  02:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Prahanoaki to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Partime,
I appologize somehow my post was misleading. I should have used a real machine cancel as an example. But intead I have used a meter stamp because that was all I had in my hand. Yes, in meter stamps they are western dating system. By the way, very nice Dairen oversees postmark. These are pretty expensive nowdays in Japanese auction sites.

to all others,
My post was meant for postmarks in Japanese. There are postmarks used exclusively for oversees purpose which is entirely in western alphabet. Those use western dating system and using it now as well. Im really sorry for my lack of explanation :(


Edited by Prahanoaki - 10/14/2012 02:28 am
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Cjd
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United States
4863 Posts

Posted 10/14/2012  09:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Similar approaches, using different measures, apply for Manchukuo postmarks, too. Also a ruler-based calendar, and occasional western-style dating, just to keep things interesting.

No doubt owing to the Japanese "influence."

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Partime
Pillar Of The Community


United States
1215 Posts

Posted 10/14/2012  10:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Prahanoaki,

Thank you again for the input into this discussion. I only have one letter in my entire collection from Japan, so it is nice to know the relationship between postage used between countries and postage used solely within a country. (From my typical American viewpoint, I assume that EVERYONE uses the Western system, and has always done so ...)

Also glad to hear that my Darien postmark, as simple as it seems, could have some value. Always interested in finding more surprises in Grandma's old collection.

Thanks to everyone else in this thread also.

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