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Poczta Polska overprint on German stamps

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Valued Member
Netherlands
333 Posts
Posted 12/30/2008  02:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message

Here is a picture I lifted from a Dutch auction site. I hope there are collectors here who know more about Polish / German stamps. As far as I could find out, these are fantasy overprints ("Mache" as Michel calls it) because the Germania stamps were not used in the Polish occupied territory without "Gen.Gouv.Warschau" or "Russisch Polen".
Perhaps I should start carving potatoes because to me it looks like someone is making these socalled local overprints and fetching quite high prices from collectors who either have no idea, or are these fantasies really that wanted?

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USA
2420 Posts
Posted 12/30/2008  07:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add modern_who to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

These are stamps issued during Poland's occupation of Germany.
That's why the Polish Eagle and "Polska Poczta" rather than
"Poczta Polska" on the overprint. They are quite rare.


Larry, APS Member

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Posted 12/30/2008  07:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add modern_who to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

They don't say General Government Warsaw since they
are well prior to WWII, when stamps issued in Germany
for use in Poland carried that imprint.


Larry, APS Member

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Netherlands
333 Posts
Posted 12/30/2008  08:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Are they listed in Fisher or another catalogue?

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Netherlands
333 Posts
Posted 12/30/2008  08:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
They don't say General Government Warsaw since they
are well prior to WWII, when stamps issued in Germany
for use in Poland carried that imprint.


Here they are:



and with overprint:



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Valued Member
Netherlands
333 Posts
Posted 12/30/2008  08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I showed the picture to a friend, and he spotted that the first stamp (3 pf. brown) is a "Reichspost" Germania. These were issued before 1902, so it is very strange that such a stamp would have been overprinted 16 years later in Poland.

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Posted 12/30/2008  09:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add modern_who to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Jan-Simon, I guess you missed the to signify that I was joking. Poland occupying Germany would indeed be a fantasy.

At about the time these stamps were being issued, my grandparents and great grandparents were coming to the United States from Poland and Poland was partitioned by the Germans, Russians, and Austrians. On my father's side, both sets of grandparents came from territory under Russian control. They knew Russian as well as Polish because Polish could not be taught and Russian was being forced upon them. On my mother's side, my grandfather's parents came here from territory occupied by Germany and would have been most likely to use the stamps you show, if they are real. My grandmother's parents came from territory under Austrian control and my great grandfather, who also spoke German and English, served in the Austrian army.


Larry, APS Member

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Netherlands
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Posted 12/30/2008  09:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

hi Larry, you were right, I did not get your joke... perhaps because afaik it is not that simple:


Quote:
Poland occupying Germany would indeed be a fantasy.

you should tell that to the "Heimatsvertriebenen" (12 million in 1950 acc. to Wikipedia) now living in Germany who still dream of Posen, Stettin, Danzig, Breslau and all the other places in Silesia, Prussia, Pommern etc that were German before 1939. I think they will not be too kind.
Ofcourse, the Germans (or the country of their grandparents to be precise) have only themselves to blame.

Anyway, borders have changed quite a lot in that period.
People could have lived in 3 or 4 different countries during their life without moving once.


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Posted 12/30/2008  10:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add modern_who to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

A few months ago I had some old German picture post cards from areas such as you describe, that are now in Poland. They were quite eagerly bid up by buyers in that region. I see there are some websites devoted to just such postcards.


Larry, APS Member

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Posted 03/19/2009  02:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

They would appear to be Polish between 1918-20, however, I find no listing even in "Poland 1918 Locals" by J. Barefoot.

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Valued Member
Germany
211 Posts
Posted 03/19/2009  03:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drudenfus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

My Michel East Europe shows some Germania stamps with overprint from 1919, but it's not this one from your first post.

I found the overprint in the local issues of Lezajsk from 1944. But there it says they were only printed on Generalgouvernement stamps Michel-Nr. 71-79, 81-88. And these are all stamps with the face of Hitler on them, no Germania, especially no "Reichspost"-Germania.


Quote:
Ofcourse, the Germans (or the country of their grandparents to be precise) have only themselves to blame.

Well, it's not that easy to say that. My grandfather fought in a resistance group against the Wehrmacht and still he was deported and all the belongings of his family taken away by the exact same people he risked his life for before.

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Netherlands
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Posted 03/19/2009  07:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

those stamps are all crude fakes. Unfortunately many collectors do not realize this and bid on them like crazy.
What I meant with the remark was that most of the time normal people on either side that get hurt the most because of certain political decisions made in an ivory tower, far far away. It is too easy to say all Germans were evil and supported the nazis' policies (Goldhagen's theory about the Willing Executioners). Of course there were many of such fanatics, but far more were opportunists, or mainly concerned with survival. It is always difficult to express an opinion that is different from the majority's, even more so in a dictatorship where your life may depend on it.

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United States
73 Posts
Posted 04/12/2009  8:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jdgarst0720 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I have some Germania Stamps with Belgien printed over it. How did that happen?? Just curious.

Jdgarst0720

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United States
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Posted 04/13/2009  12:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Belgium & Northern France were occupied by Germany during WW1. The stamps overprinted 'Belgien' were printed for used by the German Occupation general government for Belgium and used in 1914-1918. German invasion into Belgium began on August,4, 1914 the Belgiums with some British support fell back to Antwerp while the Germans swepped south to Mons on the way to Paris. Belguim fell to the Germans excluding much of Flanders & Antwerp. In move historians call 'the Race to the Sea', German and British forces moved north from Paris back to Belgium both trying to secure the Belgium coast line. The British made it to Nieuport stopping the Germans advance. In so doing established the line for most of the war. So extreme
western Flanders from Nieuport to Ypres stayed out side German control. The 1st issues were October 1, still Antwerp was still under seige. On Oct, 6, a retreat began from Antwerp joining the forces at Nieuport. Antwerp finally falls Oct, 9, the last fortifaction around Antwerp falls Oct, 10, now Germany controls all of Belguim but extreme western Flanders.
King Albert was in command of the Belgium forces from Antwerp and later Nieuport-Ypres line, also earlier removed the Belgium government to La Harve, France. Which brings up another point the Belgium issues of 1915, Scott #108,109, 111-122, & B31-3 were used in exile and or only around Nieuport-Ypres. While the issues of Oct 3, 1914, Scott B25-30, would have been use in Antwerp and Flanders only. The new issues released December 1, 1916, no longer overprinted with 'Belgien' simply surcharged was a move German government to extend the Belguim postal services to occupied France. German Michel lists this move correctly as "Etappengebiet West", while Scott lists them under France with a note also used in Belgium, when in fact should be the other way around. FUN STUFF!

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United States
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Posted 04/13/2009  12:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Jan-Simon, the issues you should would be from Izbica, however, the lower denomination less then 15Pf are not listed or mentioned in, Barefoot's catalog. This is the only town that used the laterial "Poczta Polska" with lower case letters. The stamp were overprinted twice, "Poczta Polska" with the bars covering German words in a seperate operation. If they are genuine the overprints should measure 18.25mm.

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Posted 04/13/2009  12:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Jan-Simon the first stamps you posted are likely fantasies. The catalog I mentioned earlier, "Poland 1918 Locals" by J. Barefoot, indicates that there were no Polish eagles with and encircled overprinted on any of the Germania issues. The Polish eagles were applied to those stamps, but none were ever circled.




Edited by warrehouse - 04/13/2009 01:23 am
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