Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Jaipur and Rabat - stationery envelopes  
 

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author  Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar Of The Community

Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
Jaipur seems to be a usual stationery envelope, with a printed stamp, from that time (althoug some kind of a reference number will be useful... not sure is the "50" correct on).

But I am not sure is the Rabat one also a stationery envelope or something else?

Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United Kingdom
723 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   3:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Filipo, my guess would be a mark for a pre-paid letter or a private mail cachet. Let me dwell a little on the very neat Arabic at the top and see if anything is helpful. I haven't used the language for a few years and I'm a bit rusty!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   3:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Tim!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
India
112 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   4:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


This can be any of the following depending on the paper type and knife size.

1. Jaypur 1913 A Chariot of Surya gray blue on laid paper envelope with Deschl knife type K8 (Deschl E7d) (13.7cm7.9cm)

2. Jaypur 1913 A Chariot of Surya gray blue on laid paper envelope with Deschl knife type K9 (Deschl E7e) (13.7cm7.9cm)

3. Jaypur 1913 A Chariot of Surya gray blue on wove paper envelope with Deschl knife type K8 (Deschl E7i) (13.7cm7.9cm)

Deschl knife types K8 & K9 of Japur envelopes



The nearest equivalent is Higgins and Gage B4 though H&G gets the year wrong.

The stamp imprint was printed from die III which is also suggested as the state III of the same die which is also classified as dies I & II.

The imprint is typified by crude printing characterized by blotchy shading under the horses.

This envelope was issued to pay the basic letter postage A for 4.37gm (6 masha) weight, the rate in effect from July 1904 to November 19,1942.

The imprint is canceled with Kemmenoe and Batiya type 21 cds of Sawai Madhopur (26.0378N 76.3522E), now in Sawai Madhopur district of Rajasthan.

Ref. 1. The Comprehensive India States Postal Stationery Listing.
Ed. Edward F Deschl.
private, North Bergen 1994
Part I: Native (Feudatory) Indian States Postal Stationery Listing
Chapter XIV: Jaypur; pp.126, 130

2. Priced Catalog of Postal Stationery of the World (Section 9).
Ed. Edward G Fladung.
Higgins and Gage, Incorporated, Pasadena, USA 1968
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   4:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much for this great expertize, Joy Daschaudhuri!

I am afraid that I am unable to find out which knife is used, but I can scan the back side of the cover if that can be useful. There are no any postmarks on the back, so that is the reason why I didn't scan it initially.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United Kingdom
723 Posts
Posted 05/19/2017   4:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Filipo, as for the Arabic text it seems to be explaining about a delayed letter but I'm struggling with the second part of the sentence. I know we have at least one Egyptian member on this board. Maybe he would be able to help?

Still doesn't help with the Rabat stamp, I'm afraid!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   12:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Tim. Because someone has made a note in pencil that the cover is from Rabat, I suppose that somewhere (probably in the handstamp itself) is mentioned that.

Or this kind of handstamps have been listed in some references, so that somehow helped the annotator to find out the origin and wrote out "Rabat" in pencil.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United Kingdom
723 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   08:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Filipo, the cachet reads "Post" at the top and "Al Rabat" in the middle. I can't make sense of the lower inscription yet.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
130 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   08:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Greaden to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Rabat cover is Cherifien post from the 1890s, run by the Moroccan king between certain cities during the period before the French established their protectorate.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tim, thank you so much for the help and time spent on this!

Greaden - thank you for the info, I like the local posts.

Is this considered to be a local (hand)stamp or a stationery cover? Is it possibly listed in some catalog?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
130 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   6:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Greaden to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maury lists them in their catalog of French African colonies. As far as I can figure out, they are handstamps. Each issuing city had its own design. Octagonal stamps were for commercial mail while circular designs were for mail from the royal court. Each came in five different colors. Most of those I have seen were from Fez.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/20/2017   7:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't have that one... :-/

Thank you for all info!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/21/2017   11:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Better scan of Jaipur printed stamp + back side of the cover...



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
India
112 Posts
Posted 05/22/2017   3:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The envelope is no doubt Jaypur 1913 A Chariot of Surya gray blue on laid paper envelope with Deschl knife type K9 (Deschl E7e) (13.7cm7.9cm).

Scan of the back is important even if it does not have any postmark, like in this case to determine the knife type.



Vignette: The center shows the chariot of Surya, a Vedic God of dispeller of darkness, empowerer of knowledge and the power of sight to visual perception.

The chariot is driven by 7 white horses viz., Gayatri, Vrihati, Ushnik, Jagati, Pankti, Anushtup and Trishtup and the charioteer is Aruna.

The wheels of the chariot has 6 spikes, each symbolizing the 6 seasons viz., summer, pluvia, autumn, pre-winter, winter and spring.

Atop the chariot is the banderole which shows the motto of Jaypur state Yato Dharmastato Jayah meaning "Where there is righteousness, there is victory".

The 4 squares in the 4 corners show the numeral denoting the denomination.
The top panel shows the inscription Sawai Jaypur and the left panel the denomination Adh Ana i.e. Half Ana, both in Hindi in Devnagari script.
The value is also in the right panel but in Urdu. This imprint is thus trilingual.

Variants of this same vignette were used by Jaypur in its 1904 1st issue and subsequent 1904 Perkins, Bacon and 1911 Jail Press issues and in 1931 Investiture issue.

Here is a clearer illustration of the vignette of the Chariot of Surya as used in Jaypur 1931 A SG 40.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Croatia (Local Name: Hrvatska)
980 Posts
Posted 05/22/2017   5:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add filipo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again for your expertize, Joy Daschaudhuri.

"Deschl E7e" is a most usual sample of this issue or this cover is more or less scarce?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
18714 Posts
Posted 05/22/2017   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Wow! what a fabulous piece of information.
A keeper.

Alas, my contribution to Jaipur is ragged and disjointed.
Thanks also to Tony, in the past for his assistance.

Flotsam and Jetsam...........

Not mine


Stamp backstamped by expertiser Yaremdji
(Istanbul Stamp dealer 1885-1925)




Robson= Robson Lowe?
The Rajah of Bhong

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2  Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum Topics Recently Active Forum Topics
  What is your most prized philatelic possession?
  Avatar Request--thank you!
  US $2 Inverted Jenny Stamp Sheet to Remain on Sell
  Full double transfer on R14.
  Latest on the Demise of Turbo Lister
  help identify greece stamp with overprints?
  British East Africa Questions
  Availability of "The Complete Deegam Machin Handbook"
  Help needed with 10c Banknote id
  "The Stamp Collecting Mania" in the NY Times
  Spain Civil war issue
  Uruguay cover to Germany 1937. Airmail route???
  Older Scott Specialty Slip Cases???
  Eid stamp issue (May 24/17)
  Scott 106xx-7-P6 Precancel
  Seeking advice/comments on collection organization and storage
  3rd Reich / Nazi stamps
  US Scott 443 Washington 1c line single?
  The Stamps of Tokelau.
  Moscow to New York: two letter-size envelopes w/ Scott Russia #C75 1 PVB
  Can someone check the Part II of the new Minkus Pages for Togo Please
  Is my Washington 2 Cent stamp an error or just an oddity
  Need help please on this 1870 2 cent jackson scott 135 Red???
  Private Auctions on eBay
  Woohoo! Went 3 for 3 at the Philatelic Foundation!

  US $2 Inverted Jenny Stamp Sheet to Remain on Sell
  Availability of "The Complete Deegam Machin Handbook"
  Seeking advice/comments on collection organization and storage
  What are some RED CROSS stamps that you have??
  Can someone check the Part II of the new Minkus Pages for Togo Please
  What is your most prized philatelic possession?
  Regency Stamp Auctions in St. Louis
  Turtle Stamps
  Latest on the Demise of Turbo Lister
  The Stamps of Australia : On Steiner Pages.
  The Stamps of Portugal.
  Everything's Coming Up BUTTERFLIES!
  Full double transfer on R14.
  Avatar Request--thank you!
  Log in question when using FireFox
  German Perfin Catalog
  Stamps On Television
  GOLD is everywhere, everything is GOLDEN
  US Scott 443 Washington 1c line single?
  Harding 2c #613 - perf 11
  Older Scott Specialty Slip Cases???
  "The Stamp Collecting Mania" in the NY Times
  Woohoo! Went 3 for 3 at the Philatelic Foundation!
  Help needed with 10c Banknote id
  Lets see JEWELRY on stamps!

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2014 Stamp Community Forums Go To Top Of Page
It took 0.17 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05