Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.
Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Scott 11 Dull Red Type I ?

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 3,647Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 02/12/2012   6:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add sirruspoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello all,

I just wanted to make sure I had this one right before placing it in the new album I am making. The stamp has issues, but the only one I have so far of this particular design. I hope to upgrade and gather the others in the near future.

Thanks for any clarification on this one.



Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
United States
1163 Posts
Posted 02/12/2012   6:59 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sirrus--
It is a Type II, 11A.
You can tell the difference easily. Look at the side margin lines. If there is an inner line, it's a Type II. If there is no inner line, it's a Type I. Yours has an inner line on both sides, thus, Type II, 11A.

Hope this helps.....Ray
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 02/12/2012   7:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you ray.mac for the quick reply. Now on to my learning:

I am taking that you are saying this is a type IIa (A21 per Scott's) and would in turn make this a number 26a (okay..mistake forgot the imperf. vs perf situation on this one so cannot be this number ha) for cataloging. I may be dense here as it would not be the first time.

I guess my next question is on the frame lines as I must be reading the Scott's descriptions wrong as well as my H.E. Harris Catalogue, which would not surprise me in the least.

Here is Scott's descriptions:

(A10) Type I : There is an outer frame on all four sides.

(A21): Type II: The outer frame line has been removed at top and bottom. The side frame lines were re-cut so as to be continuous from top to the bottom of the plate. Stamps from the top or bottom rows show the ends of the side frame lines and may be mistaken for type IIa.

(A21) Type IIa: The side frame lines extend only to the top and bottom of the stamp design.

H.E. Harris has about the same descriptions for the types.


There is no mention of the double lines. I was assuming that the frame lines talked about were the outer ones, but are they actually talking about the inner frame line here? Or is this particular way of telling the types apart something mentioned elsewhere, or learned from dealing with this particular stamp design?

Oh, the learning never stops. I love it. Thank you again, and any clarification on this would be great for me as your, and SCF's, humble student.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by sirruspoe - 02/12/2012 8:07 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2547 Posts
Posted 02/12/2012   7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sirruspoe,
Problem is an old catalog and the type designations have changed

was Type I is Type I
was Type Ia is Type II
was Type II is Type III
was Type IIa is Type IV
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Russ - 02/12/2012 7:50 pm
Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 02/12/2012   8:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Russ for joining in the training of the wanna-be collector. I am using a Scott's 2007, so I guess these go out of date quicker than I thought concerning the new types.

Now if I have this right, but I am still confused as I will have to go online and find the new descriptions for the types and what the corresponding number would be so I can get this one in its proper place:

Using ray.mac's numbers this would be a type II which would have been the old type IIa? But in your list the old type IIa would be a type IV, so which type is this one really? I am probably making this harder than it should be, or I am not comprehending ray.mac's usage of the II, IIa. Does that makes sense?


Edit: I see now that ray.mac is saying type II and the Scott's number would be 11A, which is not in the 2007 cat. Is that right ray.mac? Sorry for being hard to deal with.
Okay, instead of wasting every one's time I am going to see if I can find some information on the types online and come back to this with a clear head and number: hopefully.

Thank you both again for the great information and leading me in the right direction.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by sirruspoe - 02/12/2012 8:11 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1163 Posts
Posted 02/13/2012   02:23 am  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On the imperfs, there is only Type I and Type II.
When you get to the perfs (1857), that's when it's more.

Imperf (1851 issue):
Type I orange brown = 10 (Plate 1e and 1i only)
Type II orange brown = 10A (Plates 1i, 2e, 5e, 0)

Type I dull red = 11
Type II dull red = 11A

Perfed (1857 issue):

Type I rose = 25 (single frame line, all 4 sides)
Type II rose = 25A (TOUGH)(single frame line top bottom, inner and outer frame lines on the sides)
Type III dull red = 26 (most common)(frame lines, sides only, and frame line continues down the entire page, always past the top and bottom labels.
Type IV dull red = 26A (frame line sides only. side frame lines stop at the tops of the top and bottom labels, or just a smidgeon past, but do not continue to the next stamp)

Hope this helps...yours is definitely a Type II, 11A
Ray
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 02/13/2012   05:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the information on the types ray.Mac I have looked around some and found a lot on the issues but most of the sites were still using the older types. 1847.com had the new ones listed but no definitions for how to tell them apart (the types). This page being printed for future use.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 02/13/2012   05:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sirruspoe
Russ & ray.mac nailed it. Here is a little graphic that may help you with the frame line identification on these.

Good luck and happy stamping friend!


Quote:
There is no mention of the double lines. I was assuming that the frame lines talked about were the outer ones, but are they actually talking about the inner frame line here? Or is this particular way of telling the types apart something mentioned elsewhere, or learned from dealing with this particular stamp design?





Also this little chart helps with the perforate 1 Washingtons.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by I_Love_Stamps - 02/13/2012 06:09 am
Valued Member
66 Posts
Posted 02/13/2012   3:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CardinalBass to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome, all. Thanks for the detailed identification. I've had a Type II sitting in my 'To Identify' page for quite a while. I'll scan and post later today.

Cardinal Bass.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 02/13/2012   7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. Thank you I Love Stamps. That is great information and another item to print and add to my collection of learning materials. I sure do appreciate it all.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 02/16/2012   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jhlovell to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ahhhh Russ it's so nice to have you with us, you have been missed!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
6 Posts
Posted 03/08/2012   09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silrdarian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please review the rules.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
13 Posts
Posted 08/07/2016   3:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add casinoboy3 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I reviewed this thread trying to identify my A10/A21/A21a design stamps. I've included a scan below. It looks to me like first two are either 10A or 11A. I know 11A is more likely but they really look orange brown to me. The last I believe is a 26. What do you think? Thank you!

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
532 Posts
Posted 08/07/2016   6:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 91stang to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
great thread of info--
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2516 Posts
Posted 08/07/2016   7:25 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Casinoboy3, you have two 11A's and a #26. When you get hold of a nice example of a 10/10A you will see the color of your stamps look nothing like the real orange brown.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
13 Posts
Posted 12/28/2016   12:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add casinoboy3 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Came across another one (on left pictured) - I think it also 11A (more orange/brown but probably just an 11A faded?) but hoping someone could confirm. The one on the right was identified as an 11A in post above for comparison. Thank you!

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 3,647Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.19 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05