Scott 11 Dull Red Type I ?

Hello all,

I just wanted to make sure I had this one right before placing it in the new album I am making. The stamp has issues, but the only one I have so far of this particular design. I hope to upgrade and gather the others in the near future.

Thanks for any clarification on this one.

Sirrus--
It is a Type II, 11A.
You can tell the difference easily. Look at the side margin lines. If there is an inner line, it's a Type II. If there is no inner line, it's a Type I. Yours has an inner line on both sides, thus, Type II, 11A.

Hope this helps.....Ray

Thank you ray.mac for the quick reply. Now on to my learning:

I am taking that you are saying this is a type IIa (A21 per Scott's) and would in turn make this a number 26a (okay..mistake forgot the imperf. vs perf situation on this one so cannot be this number ha) for cataloging. I may be dense here as it would not be the first time.

I guess my next question is on the frame lines as I must be reading the Scott's descriptions wrong as well as my H.E. Harris Catalogue, which would not surprise me in the least.

Here is Scott's descriptions:

(A10) Type I : There is an outer frame on all four sides.

(A21): Type II: The outer frame line has been removed at top and bottom. The side frame lines were re-cut so as to be continuous from top to the bottom of the plate. Stamps from the top or bottom rows show the ends of the side frame lines and may be mistaken for type IIa.

(A21) Type IIa: The side frame lines extend only to the top and bottom of the stamp design.

H.E. Harris has about the same descriptions for the types.


There is no mention of the double lines. I was assuming that the frame lines talked about were the outer ones, but are they actually talking about the inner frame line here? Or is this particular way of telling the types apart something mentioned elsewhere, or learned from dealing with this particular stamp design?

Oh, the learning never stops. I love it. Thank you again, and any clarification on this would be great for me as your, and SCF's, humble student.

sirruspoe,
Problem is an old catalog and the type designations have changed

was Type I is Type I
was Type Ia is Type II
was Type II is Type III
was Type IIa is Type IV

Thank you Russ for joining in the training of the wanna-be collector. I am using a Scott's 2007, so I guess these go out of date quicker than I thought concerning the new types.

Now if I have this right, but I am still confused as I will have to go online and find the new descriptions for the types and what the corresponding number would be so I can get this one in its proper place:

Using ray.mac's numbers this would be a type II which would have been the old type IIa? But in your list the old type IIa would be a type IV, so which type is this one really? I am probably making this harder than it should be, or I am not comprehending ray.mac's usage of the II, IIa. Does that makes sense?


Edit: I see now that ray.mac is saying type II and the Scott's number would be 11A, which is not in the 2007 cat. Is that right ray.mac? Sorry for being hard to deal with.
Okay, instead of wasting every one's time I am going to see if I can find some information on the types online and come back to this with a clear head and number: hopefully.

Thank you both again for the great information and leading me in the right direction.

On the imperfs, there is only Type I and Type II.
When you get to the perfs (1857), that's when it's more.

Imperf (1851 issue):
Type I orange brown = 10 (Plate 1e and 1i only)
Type II orange brown = 10A (Plates 1i, 2e, 5e, 0)

Type I dull red = 11
Type II dull red = 11A

Perfed (1857 issue):

Type I rose = 25 (single frame line, all 4 sides)
Type II rose = 25A (TOUGH)(single frame line top bottom, inner and outer frame lines on the sides)
Type III dull red = 26 (most common)(frame lines, sides only, and frame line continues down the entire page, always past the top and bottom labels.
Type IV dull red = 26A (frame line sides only. side frame lines stop at the tops of the top and bottom labels, or just a smidgeon past, but do not continue to the next stamp)

Hope this helps...yours is definitely a Type II, 11A
Ray

Thank you for the information on the types ray.Mac I have looked around some and found a lot on the issues but most of the sites were still using the older types. 1847.com had the new ones listed but no definitions for how to tell them apart (the types). This page being printed for future use.

sirruspoe
Russ & ray.mac nailed it. Here is a little graphic that may help you with the frame line identification on these.

Good luck and happy stamping friend!

Quote:
There is no mention of the double lines. I was assuming that the frame lines talked about were the outer ones, but are they actually talking about the inner frame line here? Or is this particular way of telling the types apart something mentioned elsewhere, or learned from dealing with this particular stamp design?

Also this little chart helps with the perforate 1¢ Washingtons.

Awesome, all. Thanks for the detailed identification. I've had a Type II sitting in my 'To Identify' page for quite a while. I'll scan and post later today.

Cardinal Bass.

Wow. Thank you I Love Stamps. That is great information and another item to print and add to my collection of learning materials. I sure do appreciate it all.

ahhhh Russ it's so nice to have you with us, you have been missed!

Please review the rules.

I reviewed this thread trying to identify my A10/A21/A21a design stamps. I've included a scan below. It looks to me like first two are either 10A or 11A. I know 11A is more likely but they really look orange brown to me. The last I believe is a 26. What do you think? Thank you!

great thread of info--

Casinoboy3, you have two 11A's and a #26. When you get hold of a nice example of a 10/10A you will see the color of your stamps look nothing like the real orange brown.

Came across another one (on left pictured) - I think it also 11A (more orange/brown but probably just an 11A faded?) but hoping someone could confirm. The one on the right was identified as an 11A in post above for comparison. Thank you!