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Images Of Some Of The 3c #65 Shades

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Posted 08/06/2012   7:04 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add ray.mac to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
With permission from Mike McClung, who is the philatelist who has identified and published the various shades by year and rarity factor in "The Chronicle", here are some of the shades of the A25 #65 3c 1861 stamp. I've purchased several covers from Mike, and he has labeled the back of the cover with the shade-- I now have 17 of the 48 non-pink shades for the #65 stamp and I thought I'd scan them, and post.

I've scanned them with a Epson Perfection V500 scanner, with auto exposure turned down as far as possible, and the pictures here, when reduced to the size of a stamp (at 1200, it was 8% of the size), look pretty close-- a little bright, but the colors are VERY close, at least on my monitor.

I don't make any suggestions here that I've done any of the work in finding the colors, and I highly suggest that anyone who is interested in the 3c 1861 join the US Philatelic Classics Society. For your membership fee, you'll receive a quarterly copy of "The Chronicle" and every quarter there are articles on: Stampless period, 1847, 1851-57, 1861, 1869, Officials, Essays & Proofs, and others.

Mike McClung is the editor of the "1861 Period" chapter, and his shades work and other work has been published in this chapter for around 15 years now.

You can always find the back issues, with the shades, rarity factors, and his methods, on the USPCS.org website. The current issue of "The Chronicle" has the first published pictures of all of the "pinks", and it's just great.

Also, I make no guarantee that any of the shades I'm posting here are accurate. One can only really see true color on a stamp with the stamp in hand, in natural light.

On covers I've collected and purchased from Mike, here are the shades he identified:

From 1861, Bright Rose (listed in Scott), Rarity Factor = 3


From Late 1861, Carmine Rose (Listed in Scott), RF=3


From Early 1862, Red Rose (Listed in Scott), RF =2


From Mid 1862, Rose (Listed in Scott), RF = 1


From Early 1863, Lake Rose (Listed in Scott), RF = 1


From Early 1863, Dull Lake Rose (unlisted), RF = 3


From Early 1863, Pale Lilac Rose (unlisted), RF = 3


From Mid 1863, Pastel Rose (unlisted), RF =3


From Mid 1863, Deep Rose (unlisted), RF = 2


From Late 1863, Reddish Claret Rose (unlisted), RF = 5


From Early 1864, Claret Rose (unlisted), RF = 5


From Mid 1864, Brick Red (unlisted), RF = 8


From Early 1865, Pale Rose Red (unlisted), RF = 2


From Early 1865, Dull Red (Listed in Scott), RF = 1


From Early 1865, Rose Brown (unlisted), RF = 4


From Mid 1865, Pale Rose Brown (unlisted), RF = 3


From Mid 1866, Dull Rose (unlisted), RF = 1


I don't know if these shades have been listed anywhere else on the web at this point, and I thank Mike for allowing me to post them here.

Thanks, Ray
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Edited by ray.mac - 11/20/2012 6:55 pm

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Posted 08/06/2012   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. This is one of the areas I'm attempting to learn.
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Posted 08/06/2012   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ray, Nice topic with great images. A special thanks to both you and Mike.
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Posted 08/06/2012   8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add artlaunier to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ray,

This your usual, and as expected, great work. As you have been focusing your efforts on the A25 you have been gracious to share what you have learned. Like others on this forum, I truly appreciate it.

Thanks, Art.
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Posted 08/06/2012   8:45 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Art, I got my copies of "Ashbrook" great shape, 1938 edition, in the mail on Saturday.....only $100 for both volumes. Found it on Eric Jackson's website. Couldn't believe the price...... :)
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Posted 08/06/2012   9:29 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw a Neinken 1c book go for about $41 shipped the other day. That is a bargain price and if I didn't already have two I would have bought it.
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Posted 08/07/2012   08:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great post Ray ! Anyway of making this a "Sticky" thread ? This seems to be one of the most popular questions on the US Classic category. I had no Idea there were so many shades.
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Posted 08/08/2012   9:41 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For anyone else that is interested in the 3c 1861, here are some articles from "The Chronicle" that are helpful. You can purchase old copies of "The Chronicle" from USPCS.org's website-- or with your membership, you can access all Chronicle's online in PDF format.

"Pink", by Mike McClung, Chronicle 144, November 1989- Great article shows some of the detail to look for on pinks.

"Shades of the 3c 1861", by Mike McClung, Chronicle 159, August 1993-- This was the first article on the shades, and described how he went about finding them, and how he discovered that they were consistent by date.

"Pigeon Blood Pink or Passenger Pigeon", McClung, Chronicle 165, February 1995.-- A great article all about pigeon blood pink, and the description of what it is and means.

"A Rarity Scale for the Shades of the 3c 1861", by McClung, Chronicle 166, May, 1995.-- Same shades, and the methods of his assigning a Rarity Factor for each shade.

"Double Transfers on the 3c 1861", by McClung, Chronicle 170, May, 1996.-- showing close up illustrations on various double transfers that have been identified.

"The 1867-68 Grills: What We Know and What We Don't Know", by McClung, Chronicle 187, August 2000.-- A great article on the various grill types. Not limited to just the 3c stamp. This is a good article and helps the reader to understand the differences and why so many different grills.

"The 3c 1861 on Gray Paper", by McClung, Chronicle 206, May, 2005.-- Interesting article on the gray paper variety, unlisted in Scott.

Hope you find this interesting-- very interesting material, and I can't impress more strongly how helpful "The Chronicle" is as a reference for US Classics up through 1869.

ps.. if you join, please consider listing my name as referring you! :)

Ray
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Posted 08/09/2012   06:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Triggersmob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anyway of making this a "Sticky" thread ?


Only Bobby can make this decision, but I know he doesn't like stickies.

Steve
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Posted 11/20/2012   7:00 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nitro and Jeff had asked a couple of weeks ago if I could post some shades, and I already did, on 8/6....I lost the images because I moved all of the shades into their own folder in photobucket, so I refreshed the links, and they're here again.

Thanks, Ray
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Posted 11/20/2012   7:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice stamps Ray. I do wonder why or how anyone could definitively say a stamp is this shade or that shade, especially when it is a used stamp facing the conditions of 100+ year old stamps.
Natural fading as well as sun damage, oxidation, all the stuff that happens to paper over time.

Now is someone had done this shading with mint stamps that hadn't spent much time in the sun, I would be more willing to believe it. But used stamps? Other then the major color varieties that have been identified from mint stamps, all these subtle shades, are to me, someone who has a lot of time on their hands. I don't believe that all these shades exist in mint postage of the 65.
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Posted 11/20/2012   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't believe that all these shades exist in mint postage of the 65.


I tend to agree with you stampvirgin. But then again, there were nearly 2 billion #65's printed which is a hugh number for that era. I doubt color quality control was all that exact and all these shades may have, in fact, existed in mint. However, I would bet that most of the color names mentioned probably did not exist then. But this is my amateur opinion and I really don't have much to bet.
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Posted 11/20/2012   10:57 pm  Show Profile Check ray.mac's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ray.mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well guys, there are philatelists who have spent a lifetime studying color and shades out there.

Query eBay, mint US pre-1900, search on #65, and there are 12 of them out there right now. I can see a Lake Red shade, several bright or brilliant roses, and a couple of light brown roses.

The shades exist.

They were finally printing these stamps better than before-- with all of the re-cutting and double transfers in the 1c 1851 and 1857 stamps, and all of the re-cutting in the 3c 1851 and 1857, there are not a lot of printing mistakes on the 3c 1861.......but a lot of experimenting with the inks that were used, trying to come up with a color that was more stable than the pink that they started with. That's when they started to add some brown to make rose, and some carmine, and some lake, and some red, then some brown. Add a little purple or violet in there and you end up with claret.

All of this is well documented in "The Chronicle", with USPCS.org.

Thanks, Ray
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Posted 11/21/2012   10:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There was inconsistentcy in the ink making process that created some of the minor shades but it is known that the ink formulas were purposely changed throghout the production of this stamp. Tiffany did a study of these shade in the 1870's to establish the first timeline of colors. Many others have also contributed to this. There is undoubtedly shades that are the results of post-printing effects that are included. But the timeline and the shades are really very reliable with relatively few really questionable shades or dates. These early studies were done before there was much environmental effect on the stamps.

As we try to determine what we have now and fit it into the color variety or date there can be several issues due to post-printing changes.
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Posted 11/21/2012   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I gather from Ray and Russ that there are many known distinct colors due to experimenting with color formulas. Am I understanding this correctly? Of the RF, which is the more rare: RF1 or RF8. Is there an RF6 and RF7 or other rarity factors?
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Edited by quigngt - 11/21/2012 2:03 pm
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Posted 11/21/2012   2:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great work and thank you for your efforts. That pale lilac rose would scream pink to me but since its not 1861 I guess that would void the option. If I received that one off cover in a lot I would surely send it for cert. Do the expertizers use all the relavant information availiable or do they strictly stick with Scott options. You have many unlisted shades yet I doubt they would be certified as such, except from an expert on the issue.
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