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U625 Hologram Stamped Envelope Question

 
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 03/22/2015   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wt1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here are two 29c Hologram varieties from my collection. One is a cut square and the other a #10 envelope entire, both of which the Scott Catalog identifies as U625:



The Scott Catalog includes a footnote mentioning that examples on recycled paper were issued May 1, 1992 and have a "recycled" imprint under the flap in #10 size only.

I can confirm the above envelope entire DOES include the "recycled" imprint under the flap. However, in that the top example is only a cut square, is the green color shade difference enough to suggest that example must be from the original printing of January 21, 1992 or is there no conclusive way to tell?

In other words, is the green color shade a variety or can it be used as an identifier to separate the "recycled" variety from the original printing?

I am thinking that a Postal Stationery Specialized Catalog would differentiate these varieties in greater detail than Scott, thus the reason for my question.

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Edited by wt1 - 03/22/2015 5:57 pm

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Posted 03/22/2015   7:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The UPSS catalog has two separate listings, one for recycled paper and one for "not on recycled paper", just what you have already observed. No mention is made regarding the color of the "USA 29".
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Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 03/22/2015   8:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. Since both examples were scanned at the same time, the green color variances seem significant enough that it should at least be mentioned somewhere, even if it is not an identifier of the two envelope types.
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Posted 03/23/2015   08:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Whenever I get envelopes of the same issue that have demonstrably different shades (as yours do), I keep 'em.

I like that "scanning them together" idea. We always need to remember the various gamuts our images flow through as we share them over the web and on paper.
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Posted 03/23/2015   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barkeep to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I scanned my U625's together and it looks like the darker ink is the original printing and the slightly lighter is the recycled envelope.

This is my first post with an image so I hope it turns out OK.



Bob Shelton
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Posted 03/24/2015   08:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, we don't have any information as to when the ink shade changed, or the new recycled paper was introduced. They may have been coincident, or not.

If the changeovers did occur at the same time, the catalog editors will recognize the change in paper as a new catalog entry, and assume the color variation is incidental.

On the other hand, if they didn't occur together, there will be some envelopes during the changeovers with opposite color/paper match. Those might be rare or common, depending on the length of time between changeovers. This would be of interest to us flyspeckers, but not the catalog editors, I suspect (he said with a good deal of understatement).
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Posted 03/26/2015   1:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On barkeep's two envelopes (scanned at the same time), the upper one seems to have larger lettering in the copyright, as compared to the bottom one.

Or am I dreaming?
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Posted 03/26/2015   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On barkeep's two envelopes (scanned at the same time), the upper one seems to have larger lettering in the copyright, as compared to the bottom one.

Or am I dreaming?

Focusing on the width of the "U" it looks to me like the bottom would be slightly larger. I loaded the image into Paint.Net, if the bottom is slightly larger, it is almost too small a difference to measure, about 1 pixel. I would imagine that if different plates were used, there might be differences of such small magnitude in how they lay down the ink, but that there is no underlying difference in the original from which the plates were derived.
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Posted 03/26/2015   1:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add barkeep to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are correct, the lettering is larger on the first printing.
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Posted 04/02/2015   3:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jobi01 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As a member of the UPSS 20th C Catalog editorial committee and as a postal stationery examiner for APEX:

Shade varieties that occur as merely a difference in the thickness of the ink or the appearance of a shade variety due to a difference in the underlying paper are not color varieties. Also, modern blue and green inks also change shade easily with exposure to light and change long before toning of the paper is obvious. A reasonable sized selection of the two paper varieties needs to be undertaken to examine this issue. New discoveries are exciting even if it does not lead to a new listing in a specialized catalog. I have three U625 on unwatermarked paper that appear to have the year date printed in three different sizes and three different shades. The only difference is the amount (thickness) of ink applied.
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Bill Lehr
US Postal Stationery Specialist
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Posted 04/06/2015   10:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add walkabout to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw this thread and looked at 9 envelopes I have with the hologram - also, added stamps, but be that as it may. Online it says that the 1989 is a 25c issue and the 29c issue is 1992. Why would the envelopes of both still have the copyright of 1989?

addendum: All 9 envelopes have the copyright 1989 and the 'recycled' stamp.
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Edited by walkabout - 04/06/2015 11:01 pm
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Posted 04/07/2015   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have observed that the USPS doesn't seem to consider the postage value as part of the "design". You often will see an envelope with an earlier copyright. A color change doesn't seem to matter.

I wonder if there is something about the legal definition of "that which can be copyrighted" that allows for protection even though some aspect has changed?
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