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Helena, MT Bank Check - 1868 (5c 1st Revenue Usage)

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Posted 03/27/2015   10:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rileysan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Sorry in advance - I don't have pictures.

I hurriedly worked through a collection for the Northwest Philatelic Society this week and while browsing through a stockbook, came across a few checks from a bank in Helena, MT, all dated 1868. This pre-dates statehood by more than 20 years. The stamps were all 5c first series revenues (I don't recall the exact stamps that were used). The cancellations were a lightly impressed red oval CDS that I could not read without magnification, but the overall eye-appeal of the checks was excellent.

I could find nothing like them on eBay.


I have about 30 albums/stockbooks to go through and must give an estimate of value for this donation. Most of it is kiloware fodder, but still have a lot of work to do.

If I can find the time (a luxury these days) I will try to scan them.

Does my description give enough information to form an opinion on value?


Brian
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Brian Riley
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Posted 03/27/2015   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Northwest Philatelic Society? I'm a member of the Northwest Philatelic Library (www.nwpl.org). Is there any connection?

As for the checks, if they have any images that would boost the collector value. A scan would definitely help. Are they from a particular bank?
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Edited by GregAlex - 03/27/2015 8:26 pm
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Posted 03/27/2015   8:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A lot will depend on whether the checks can be tied to some specific historical event or well known person. The stamps are probably going to be common, the ones with the highest catalog are the proprietary and playing cards which were not supposed to be used on checks. Since nearly all the checks from the revenue period would have fallen withing the territorial dates, there should only be a modest value added for that aspect; on the other hand the population was fairly small so so it depends a lot on an unknown factor, the survival rate. a few images would help.
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Posted 03/27/2015   8:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Brian, you might also post this on the Checks, Stocks, and Bonds forum. http://goscf.com/f/18
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Posted 03/27/2015   8:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
revcollector, what checks would have been taxed at 5 cents?
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Posted 03/27/2015   9:05 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It may not actually be a check. There are many documents that LOOK like checks to the untrained eye, but in fact are not (I fall victim to this all the time).

Here is an example from my collection that might be similar to what OP is talking about.

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Edited by revenuecollector - 03/27/2015 9:09 pm
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No checks would be 5 cents. Since the word checks was used in the first post I used it as well; that is part of the reason that images are needed.
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks revenuecollector and revcollector. That was what I was getting at with my question. I'm not well-versed on rates, but I did think that to be taxed at anything higher than 2 cents, the document had to be something other than a check -- such as a certificate of deposit or a promissory note. I love Dan's certificate. Striking color and a very cool oval cancel.
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a zero interest certificate of deposit, not a check.
Today, of course, CDs bear interest.
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Today, of course, CDs bear interest.


Only slightly more than zero.
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How much interest depends on what music is on the CD. :-)
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Posted 03/27/2015   11:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 03/28/2015   12:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some historical information on the banking firm "Hussey, Dahler & Co.":


Quote:
In May 1866, Warren Hussey and Charles L. Dahler opened branches of their Salt Lake City, Utah, bank in Helena and Virginia City, Montana Territory, by buying out the earlier Allen and Millard banks. The Helena bank operated until 1871 when it was sold to Fox, Lyster and Roe. The Virginia City bank was taken over by C.L. Dahler in 1872. In 1879 Dahler sold his bank to Raymond, Harrington and Company. Senior partner Warren Hussey was born near Terre Haute, Indiana, in 1835. In 1853 he moved to Des Moines, Iowa, where he first worked as a clerk in a drug store and then was employed by B.F. Allen's bank. In 1861 he moved to Denver, Colorado, and opened a bank, Warren Hussey and Company. The bank fell victim to the Panic of 1873 and Warren Hussey moved to Spokane, Washington, where he worked for the Spokane National Bank. He later moved to New York City. Junior partner Charles L. Dahler was born near Dusseldorf, Prussia, in 1835. In 1839 the family emigrated to the United States, settling in Missouri. In 1858, Dahler joined the Colorado gold rush, arriving in Denver by wagon train. While there he became associated with Warren Hussey, and eventually became a partner in his Salt Lake City bank. In 1866 Dahler moved to Virginia City, Montana Territory to manage the partnership's Montana branches. After the partnership dissolved he managed the Virginia City bank on his own. After selling the bank in 1879, Charles Dahler worked for the Peoples National Bank in Helena. In 1910 he moved to Silver Star, Montana, where he invested in several prosperous mines including the Iron Rod. He died April 20, 1920.
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Posted 03/29/2015   09:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rileysan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Northwest Philatelic Society? I'm a member of the Northwest Philatelic Library (www.nwpl.org). Is there any connection


The connection is dubious at best :)

I combined OSS (Oregon stamp society) with NWPL. I am a member of the board of NWPL. Now I'm embarrassed!
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Brian Riley
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Posted 04/08/2015   1:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rileysan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I finally got a chance to photograph the documents in question and, just as Revenuecollector guessed, they are deposit slips. None of these are in particularly great condition, but still interesting nevertheless.

Anyone have an opinion on the retail value of these?

Brian







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Posted 04/08/2015   1:14 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. It appears that yours were canceled as precancels (i.e., prior to the stamp's placement on the document) as opposed to mine which was canceled on document. Are they all like that? If you have any with full cancel strikes on the document, I'd be interested in picking up some spares.
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