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Are These A Case Of "No-Silk" Silks

 
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Posted 04/08/2015   11:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add southpaw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was just up in Asheville again and had an hour to kill so I stopped by the local stamp store. These two were really inexpensive - an R55 which caught my eye because of what appears to be a cracked plate variety. The R85 unfortunately has a thin, but is on a very thick paper, seems even thicker than my other silks. The R55 is very thick also. Both have 1871 manuscript cancels. I can see a possible couple silk threads on the R85 but they are tiny. I can't see any on the R55. Anyone care to comment on the print quality of the R85?

Dan, Bart or Rusty, did any of you succeed in getting that R3c with Scovil's Worm Killer cancel that was just on eBay?








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Posted 04/08/2015   11:12 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see any silk threads in either of the two stamps.

I bid on the Scovil cancel but wasn't even close. My top was closer to $100 than $200.

Scarce cancel though.
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Posted 04/09/2015   05:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
southpaw, I was watching the Scovil but missed the closing and never bid. I wouldn't have come close, though. Not that it may not be worth the selling price -- I just wouldn't have bid that high.

That looks like a prominent plate crack on the R55 -- nice!
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Posted 04/09/2015   07:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alas, there is no such thing as "no silk silks". Having the other characteristics is not enough, they must have the threads to be considered silk papers.

The entry of goods scratch (I think it's too thin and the edges are too straight to be a crack even though Scott calls it one) was originally written about as a new discovery back in 1929.
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Posted 04/09/2015   07:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I checked my R59c cracked plate:




Sure enough, the edges of the crack look slightly rough. Thanks for this tidbit of new knowledge, revcollector.
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Posted 04/09/2015   07:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lackemacher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
R55c is a nice copy of Scott listed "crack". Position 76 on the plate. Almost all of Scott's listed cracks on Civil War Revenues are actually scratches on the plate.
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Posted 04/09/2015   09:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Mortgage crack goes into the top of the stamp below for a short distance. Pairs showing the full crack are hard to find, although singles showing the bottom of the crack are around, although they may not always be recognized.
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Posted 04/09/2015   10:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add southpaw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I realize that both paper and silk threads are necessary to to be positively ID'd as a silk paper, I was merely showing examples of what is most likely "silk" paper stamps which unfortunately do not have any silk threads appearing in the portion of the paper on which these were printed. That's all.

Here's a better view of the scratch/crack. It's not exactly straight or regular.



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Posted 04/09/2015   10:25 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The only time stamps like those above can be considered silk papers is if they are part of a multiple where one or more of the other stamps is definitively a silk paper (I have and have seen more than a few examples of this, especially on the 10-cent and 25-cent denominations). As long as the stamp remains part of the multiple it is considered a silk paper. Once it is detached, it ceases to be a silk paper unless it has its own blue silk threads (odd I know, but given the current definition of what silk paper is, that is how it has to be).

A few years back when Michael Aldrich "discovered" an R41d block (or was it R42d, I forget which), the PF came up with the most bizarre determination on the cert that SOME of the stamps in the block were silk papers, but the other stamps were not... which makes ZERO sense.

A multiple is either silk paper or it isn't. It is analyzed as a whole, not as individual parts. You absolutely cannot have a multiple containing both silk paper and regular (old) paper. That is physically impossible.
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Posted 04/09/2015   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add southpaw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BTW thanks for everyone's input on this forum. I am grateful for the education I've received over the last year or so. Referring to another thread on the forum posing the question "will stamp collecting survive?", it will, as long as there are individuals like you willing to share their passion and knowledge. Now "whether the business of stamp collecting will survive", that is another question. It is definitely changing, but at the same time offering opportunity to those like me. And I'm not exactly young at 51, or new to stamp collecting, but I am at the point where I'm paying more attention to details, specializing, learning and growing my collection in exciting ways.
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