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R54e Cross Hatching

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Pillar Of The Community

1151 Posts
Posted 04/15/2015   01:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stampmaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi All

First off, I don't think I've ever seen any R54 (.50 Cent, Conveyance) without some kind of plate variety!

Here is R54E the Ultra or Ultramarine, with the cross hatching on either side of George's head missing or what some people call worn as in worn plate. I've seen only a few ultra's where the cross hatching is complete and full.

Has anybody else noticed this on the R54E's?

Does any body have any R54E's with other plate varieties? Would like to see them, and discuss them.

Does anybody have any R54 without any plate varieties at all? Let's see them.

Dave

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7558 Posts
Posted 04/15/2015   08:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since the ultramarine's didn't come out until 1869 and were only used on a few specific stamps, the plates they were printed on were almost always at least somewhat worn. That is a state of the plate, but it is not a "plate variety". I doubt there was any real thought about titles at that point, it was whatever they grabbed for the values they needed. It did not last long because it is a much more expensive ink than the darker blue shades used.
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Posted 04/15/2015   08:54 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 1st issue revenues are rife with inking/printing anomalies that, while interesting and enjoyable to collect, don't rise to the level of plate varieties.

By my understanding, a plate variety is consistent (position X on plate Y will always have characteristic Z), whereas inking or printing anomalies can happen to any position on any plate at any time; it may happen once and never again.

Unique? Possibly. Valuable as a result? Likely not.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/15/2015   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi All

Interesting comments received so far, but how about more comments from other members! Lets all see what you have.

Dave
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Posted 04/15/2015   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a reasonable chance that this stamp has had a manuscript cancel removed.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/15/2015   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector, I never said it was a mint stamp, of course it is used, there should not be any question about that as it is self evident!

Have you ever found any R54 without a plate variety on it?

Good luck!

Dave
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Posted 04/15/2015   2:01 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Umm... is there a particular reason you're being so rude to Bart? He was simply making an observation. No reason to reply in the manner you did.

You appear to be continuing the same harsh/abrasive manner of treating people that got you booted from Stamporama.

Not good.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/15/2015   4:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I do not understand why, asking if Bart had ever seen any R54 without a plate variety is rude?

I have not been booted off of StampoRama, just have not posted anything recently.

Dave
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Posted 04/15/2015   6:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HungaryForStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm confused. Didn't both revenue collector's just indicate that your stamp is not a plate variety? Kind of answers your question doesn't it? Maybe I'm missing something.
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Posted 04/15/2015   7:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought the stamp was mint. Nicely centered also.
I have never seen a plate variety.
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Posted 04/15/2015   7:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You were talking about the crosshatching. The reason the crosshatching seems so strange is because there was a manuscript cancel there and someone used some kind of chemical and removed it. It had nothing to do with how the stamp was printed. I have seen many ultramarine's that don't have any plate varieties.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 04/15/2015   9:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector, I agree I have seen many ultramarine stamps that did not have any plate varieties. I was asking whether or not about the R54E ultramarine stamps seen with plate varieties. It's been my experience that all R54's have plate varieties.

Stampcrow, sorry, this stamp of mine is used. Very faded cancel, difficult to see.

HungaryForStamps, missing cross hatching whether from a worn plate or major relief breaks is a recognized plate variety. If in double check with the "Encyclopedia of Plate Varieties by Cloudy French.

Hope other collectors can respond with other R54's with plate varieties, would like to see more of them.

Interesting responses!

Good luck in all future collecting activities.

Dave
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Posted 04/15/2015   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cloudy French's book is only for Bureau issued stamps; the bureau has much better records about plates than the private companies. He does mention worn plates, but since they happen to every plate to some degree it is really stretching it to call them "plate varieties". They would certainly be at the bottom of the list.

I have not seen any R54e with any plate varieties. All R54's do not have plate varieties either, the R54c is known with a DT, a crack and a scratch. They are not listed on the a, b, or e types.
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Posted 04/15/2015   10:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stampmaster, it is becoming clear that you have a much broader definition of "plate variety" than the rest of us do. Please show us 3-4 more images which demonstrate the types of things you are looking for.

And yes, I thought the original image was unused also.
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Posted 04/15/2015   11:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector, It is true Cloudy's book only covered Bureau issued stamps, but I had many discussions with Cloudy about revenue stamp varieties. Its funny now, but back then I had some of the same views that Revcollector talks about and also Revenuecollector! But Cloudy always pointed out revenue stamps would also have the same plate varieties as Bureau issued stamps, but of course on the revenue stamps, especially the first issue revenue series. You are correct that worn plates could be considered at the bottom of the list, but still on the list. Makes no difference to me if a plate variety is at the top, middle or bottom of the list.

What list are you referring about, certainly not the Scott Catalog, this is a mistake, as the Scott Catalog only lists the top of the list of plate varieties, Scott can't list all of them, just too many. Or are you referring to another list which these are not listed on? I'm only aware of Scott Catalog and Cloudy's book that lists plate varieties in detail.

I have (not by design) a lot of R54's, they all every one of them have plate varieties on them.

We keep going back and forth, I don't see that this is really getting us anywhere important. I have my views and you two have your views. My point of my original posting was to give information to everybody about this stamp in question.

John Becker, Your are correct, the original image appears to be unused in my terrible scan. Sorry, but I'm confused with your request I show everybody what I'm looking for. My point, and perhaps I did not communicate very good, was to see if other members had plate varieties they could show us all on their R54's. I could I guess show you scans of Double Transfer, cracks, scratches, tool marks, plate captured items on the plate (rare to find these, I think I only have one), layout lines, position dots, etc. and etc., but what good would this be, as I wanted to see what others members have. Hope you understand.

Unless somebody else has anything else I think this post has reached its end.

Good luck to all of you in your future collecting activities.

Dave
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87 Posts
Posted 04/16/2015   07:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lackemacher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If I knew how to get an image on this site I would gladly offer R54 plate varieties. R54 early and late state platings will show that almost every position, at one time or another, has minor scratches. Dr. Steven Perch has the most complete R54 work I'm aware of. R54e is so pale that the scratches/ double transfer are hard to see. The position 54 double transfer occurred after that position was severely scratched. The late(silk) state shows many minor reentries.
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