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Other Marginal Marking Captures

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Posted 12/19/2015   1:19 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add eyeonwall to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
To more marginal marking captures.

First one is a 206 that caputures a large part of the guide arrow at the upper left (these always have a straight edge). Anyone have a guess as to the town "...NSON"?



The second one shows "ONTINENTAL BANK", which conclusively proves it is a 158 as it is the only one printed by Continental Bank Note.

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Posted 12/19/2015   1:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Johnson or Atkinson, Nebraska?
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Posted 12/19/2015   1:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"The second one shows "CONTINENTAL BANK", which conclusively proves it is a 158 as it is the only one printed by Continental Bank Note."

Not so fast. Continental Bank Note (and National Bank Note) plates continued to be used by American Bank Note company until they were replaced or the contract ended. Keep in mind that the consolidation of Continental Bank Note Company into the American Bank Note company did not mean a move to new facilities. Scott Catalog identifies qualifying hard paper stamps as Continental and soft paper stamps as American. This is a great disservice to collectors because the transition started a year or two before the nameplate change.

Clark

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Edited by cfrphoto - 12/19/2015 1:55 pm
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Posted 12/19/2015   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let me second what Clark is saying. In the early nineties I prepared an exhibit with this page in it:





The stamps in the center of the page (2,3,6,10,15) all have Continental imprint captures, but are on soft paper. The 3c has been replaced with an overhead imprint reading like the others (and like yours).

My writeup gets the point across, I think, though you may have to click the pic to enlarge it for reading.
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Edited by essayk - 12/19/2015 2:29 pm
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Posted 12/19/2015   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice collection of imprints, essayk!
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Posted 12/19/2015   11:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Achilles to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would guess the post mark on the first stamp is from Atkinson, Nebraska. It seems to me that since the CDS is split down the middle, there should be 4 letters on the left, just like the right side. I didn't spend much time researching this but both towns were founded around the same time--Atkinson in 1875, platted in 1880, and Johnson in the 1860s, platted in 1881. The Atkinson PO was first granted in 1878. I could find no info on the earliest PO in Johnson.
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Posted 12/20/2015   03:44 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
clark & essayk - ok, comparing the 3c to what I believe is a 158 (hard paper) and a 184 (soft paper), it matches the soft paper. So does that make it a 184 even with the CBNC imprint?

achilles - what does platted mean?
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Posted 12/20/2015   07:12 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
platted = plotted
When the town was first surveyed and divided up into plots.
Don
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Posted 12/20/2015   09:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
eyeonwall - See the note "Identification by Paper Type" on page 36 of the 2016 Scott Unites States Specialized Catalog. Unless the stamp or cover has a dated cancellation from Feb 4, 1879 or before, examples with soft paper are traditionally considered to be an American Bank Note stamps.

However, also carefully check the stamp paper of examples that capture the American Bank Note Company logo. Examples are known to exist on hard paper.

Clark
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Edited by cfrphoto - 12/20/2015 09:31 am
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Posted 12/20/2015   10:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just when when thought you knew a little about it someone throws a monkey wrench in. So both stamps can be on both paper? Interesting.

Thanks
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Posted 12/21/2015   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Unless the stamp or cover has a dated cancellation from Feb 4, 1879 or before,...


Here is an example of theoretically the latest verifiable date for Continental soft paper:




The stamps are on Continental soft paper.


Edit: As for American hard paper, we are getting close to Christmas eve, and I know that Clark has an imprint capture example of American hard paper (on cover, as I recall). Maybe if we can show him we have been nice and not naughty, he will let us see his stamp in time for the festivities.

Is that something we want for Christmas?
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Edited by essayk - 12/21/2015 1:02 pm
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Posted 12/22/2015   10:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
essayk

Some of what you ask for can be done. I will have to find the rest of the images.

Clark

The Husbandman cover





Certificate for the unused copy. Stamp image to be shown later.



A used example. Cert to be shown later.



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Edited by cfrphoto - 12/22/2015 10:48 pm
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Posted 12/26/2015   11:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is magnificent stuff, Clark! Thank you for putting that out there for us all to see. I love it.

The half dozen or so examples I was checking with UV came up dark, but the lamp was acting up (low output and the filter was loose and slid around on handling). Lamp frailty notwithstanding, I still regard them as soft paper until proven to be hard. Some of them have the hard paper sheen on the obverse, but I am not persuaded by that when the reverse comes up dark on UV. I have not done a careful study of mesh characteristics yet.

For now I make no claim to having any example of this variety for any denomination. So it is a real treat to see these certified examples. I wish the PF had been a bit more directly affirming on that first example (on the cover Piller sent in). They affirmed it as a "genuine usage" and let it stand as a "182var" but do not actually comment on the identification of the paper. Then again, as long as it remains on the cover they probably wouldn't say more about the stamp paper. For now it is enough that they did not dismiss it as a "normal" 182.

On the matter of color shade, I think it would be good to get a side-by-side scan of a couple of these alongside an example of a 182 known for but a single shade, such as a Wheeler patent item. I am anxious to eventually hear about the spectral analysis of these specimens to see how consistent the instrument (VSC6000) readings are going to be for the ink in these. If the production was as limited as we suspect, then that might narrow things to a particular printing, which would help with quick recognition and for stamps on cover.

Oh what a time to be doing stamps!
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Posted 04/13/2017   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey guys, you've hijacked the thread. This thread was about hard and soft paper, and the use of imprint captures was related directly to that topic vis a vis American Hard Paper. You are discussing capture copies without regard to the original purpose. I request that you start a separate thread for capture copies and that the mod move those posts to the new thread.

Please?
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Posted 04/13/2017   2:54 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This topic has been split out into two threads, other thread is located here http://goscf.com/t/53922

Don
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Posted 04/18/2017   11:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Douglas Andrew Willinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a great thread, worthy IMHO of a somewhat more specific title.

I find it fascinating that there are hard paper printings with the "American" imprint (which I presume could be no earlier than 1879 when such plates were introduced). Perhaps American was using left over paper stocks?

On a related note, relating to marginal imprints, perhaps not relevant to the type of paper, but rather the matter of production variants as the printing contracts passed from Continental to American, and earlier, from National to Continental.

What is the deal with my pair of 6 cent Lincoln National plate number type Scott 148 examples. One is carmine as to be expected, but the other has the color I would more associated with the Continental.

Were there later National printings that used the ink intended for the Continental? Or did Continental print some stamps with National plates?

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Edited by Douglas Andrew Willinger - 04/18/2017 11:38 pm
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