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Help With My Grandfather's Serious Collection?

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Posted 11/20/2016   12:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kelleher has a type of auction for everything. That is why some items could take even longer than 6 months and could sell into summer. Check will take 6-8 weeks to arrive as they sell huge volume in Connecticut & Hong Kong. From what I have seen little to no items will be sold individually. Just one or a couple of large groupings at best.

Consignment minimum is $2,000 value which is quite low for a major auction house.
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Edited by redwoodrandy - 11/20/2016 12:50 am
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Posted 11/20/2016   09:01 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would suggest making an appointment and going to see Kelliher, it's not far from where you live and a face to face would the best way to do this. Easier than packing and shipping too.

The Kelliher folks are nice to deal with and they've been getting very good prices in their auctions.

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Posted 11/21/2016   11:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You have some nice material that is well centered. The sample you showed hints at some value in your holding. Since you did not show us specialist material, I am going to assume that you have a nicely graded general US collection. So...

There are philatelic consultants who work on commission to break down significant holdings. But based on what you showed here I think they would not be worth the cost for you. There are also dealers or houses that offer to come to your home to look over whatever you have. They may try to give you an on-the-spot offer, and unless you know what your grandfather put into it you may find that attractive. I don't recommend that since you don't know stamps. Many is the heir who was delighted to get 5000 for a collection that should have sold for 35000.

Auction might seem to be quick and honest, but here's a caveat on the auction route. The more prominent the auction house, the higher the lotting minimum. How much higher varies. But if you just let them do all the work of lotting the collection, the more likely it is that they will group things so that each lot is designed to realize $500 to $1500. The more time they have to put into getting it ready to sell, the higher their "cost," So they tend to suggest that the collection be sold in just a few lots in a collection auction, where every lot is a whole album or collection. In that situation you are lucky to get wholesale for the material.

Kelleher has regular "collection and large lots" auctions. A nicely graded collection, well organized, with 10-15000 catalog value mostly in 20th century unused, may realize $4-6000. A collection with $30K cat might fetch $8-10K. But if it has some nice early or special items in the mix the percentage of catalog value rises. $30K cat might be $12-15K. It all depends on how it is described.

My suggestion: don't just consign it to the first company that comes up for you.

1. Find out how close you are to a WSP (world series of philately) show and plan to go there to meet some dealers (plural) with integrity. Officials at the show (especially the bourse chairman) can help you make those connections, if they are willing to be helpful. If not, don't stay.

2. Take along an album of nice material to show prospective dealer(s). After one looks at your sample, make sure he finds out that you have more like it of similar grade and then ask for his advice on the best way to proceed, BUT DON'T MAKE A COMMITMENT WITH HIM JUST YET.

3. Watch the non-verbal reactions of these dealers (who are in poker mode) to see who seems to be giving you the most reliable story about how to proceed. Then arrange for him to look at everything.

4. Pay close attention to how you are being treated. Is he willing to give you both good news and bad news about what you are showing him?





Use this forum to show us more of what you have so we can advise you better. Tell us what you are considering and where we can shed some light we will.


Added note: I see you have a nice set of Shanghai overprints. If you are planning to sell the whole collection as a single lot, I would pull that set out to sell by another means. Leave the Zeppelin airmails in the large collection. Why the difference? The Zepps are expected to be in an airmail collection and if absent send it to the basement. The Shanghai ovpts are not "expected" so would not be missed if absent, but will do nicely if sold as a group in another venue.
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Edited by essayk - 11/21/2016 12:11 pm
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Posted 11/29/2016   2:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add phate008 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello again everyone,

I called Kelleher, and they advised me to bring the collection in on Wednesday, Dec. 7th. Apparently Weds. are free appraisal day. I figure this is the best place to start as they are located only about 45 minutes away. These were taken by a cousin to a few dealers beforehand who all seemed 'interested' in many of the stamps or collections, but my cousin refused to give out his number and instead took their cards. Supposing there was a rare error or oddity among these stamps I am not convinced that a dealer would let me know. I find it far more likely that they would hide it in a bundle and try and get it for wholesale or maybe a little more. This is why an auction house seems like a better place to start IMO. Considering that they make a portion of the profit I think it is in their best interest to really analyze which stamps are considered more rare and to highlight them among their auctions.

My grandfather started this collection in 1920's building off my great aunt's collection which began somewhere in the late 1800's-early 1900's. He continuously bought stamps over the years, and besides a few receipts from auctions/dealers, the where and when of these stamps is largely unrecognized.

As I breeze through some posts on the forums I realize how little I know about stamps and all its technical jargon. It seems like among almost every single stamp there are rare grills, errors, etc. It's hard to know where to start when looking for something rare.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Essayk, I will keep what you said in mind. I don't plan on making any commitments right off the bat; I am just looking for an experts opinion on what I do and don't have. In response to the Shanghai overprints, are you saying that the whole book, except the Shanghai stamps should be sold in a lot? I would hope that an auction house would piece out most of the stamps or sets and then make a big lot of all the stuff that has little monetary value.

Another question, are any of the stamps in the second to last picture worth anything? I would assume that these are the oldest stamps in the album.
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Posted 11/29/2016   3:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You should be in good hands with the auction firm. If they decide that there is enough material there to list in one of their upcoming auctions they will know the best way to sell it in lots. They probably won't list everything in 1 lot. The Shanghai overprints will be in a single lot by them self.
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Posted 11/29/2016   3:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Renden to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wish you the best of luck and enjoy the experience and the returns. You have received very good recommendations from experienced members !
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Posted 11/29/2016   4:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
second to last picture:

top row are confederate stamps left to right: (1st) scott 6, likely light blue (could be 7)-- regardless it is 10-25$ stamp if sound

(2nd and 3rd) scott 11 or 12 (need a scan to better assess) regardless worth 10-20$ if sound

(4th stamp) scott 13 - worth about 40$. looks really nice with jumbo margins. May get more for it.

bottom row: (1st) local stamp Boyd's Dispatch-- likely 5-10$ stamp but could be more depending on paper type

(2nd) Scott 71, could be Scott #100 if grilled. Not well centered-Fine centering at best, used. With this centering expect #71 worth about 25$ and a #100 perhaps 50$.

(3rd) Scott 14 or 15, difficult to tell without scan- I favor scott 15. Looks to be well centered. perhaps 150-175$ stamp if sound.

Good luck
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Posted 11/29/2016   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In response to the Shanghai overprints, are you saying that the whole book, except the Shanghai stamps should be sold in a lot?



No, I apologize if I gave that impression. I was just saying that they particularly happened to catch my attention from what you were showing, and that because of their nature as B-O-B material you COULD sell them separately without appearing to be "cherry picking" the collection. But I would agree that leaving all in the hands of the various appraisers is perhaps the best course for a person in your circumstances.
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Posted 12/02/2016   12:18 pm  Show Profile Check 3193zd's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 3193zd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How quick are you wanting to sell? Or is that not an issue but getting the most value out of the collection? If so, why not get someone to list these for you on ebay and other stamp sites. It would take a few months to identify and list, then a few more months to sell. By breaking up the collection into more desirable lots you can command more money. You could work out a percentage with the lister or pay him in stamps.
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Michael Darabaris
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Posted 01/04/2017   7:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add phate008 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello all,

I just got back from my appraisal appointment with Kelleher's auction house. The man I spoke with there was extremely professional and just an all around nice guy. He took a look at the book briefly and he pointed out some of the interesting ones. One in particular he thought was nice was the $5 stamp in the 5th from the last picture. Not sure if this is Jackson or Franklin from the pictures. He said it was NM never hinged and said the cat value of it was around $6100, and he estimated that it would fetch in the $2,000 - $2,500 range. He said that they were pretty meticulous and studied and logged every stamp, and though it would take some time (shooting for March), they intended to really examine and figure out if there is any rare pieces in the bunch. He said that there could be something interesting in the 2 pages of Washington / Franklin stamps, but he won't know till he really checks them out. He pointed out a few others, showed me why a few weren't worth as much. An example of this was on the first Zeppelin stamp. When he checked the back he said it was thinned and the value was very low because of it. He said the third Zeppelin stamp was unhinged and nice looking though. He explained that they would take all the good quality items and sell them individually in one particular auction, and a lot of the others would get sent to a 'collectors auction'. My grandfather had 2 other full boxes of sheets, modern stamps, etc. He said that anything over 25 cent denomination would go into a lot and that these lots usually sell for 60% of face value as they are usually purchased by mailing companies who buy them for postage. Anyways, thanks to everyone for the recommendations. Kelleher's worked out great and now I am just waiting till I get the auction book in the mail.
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Posted 01/04/2017   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations! Please let us know what happens next - like let us know when the catalogue is out and which are yours.


Peter
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Posted 01/04/2017   8:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
US Sc #313 MNH $5 John Marshall 1755-1835. Catalogues $6250. Fought in the Revolutionary War and became chief legal officer to General George Washington. He was the nations 4th Chief Supreme Court justice and established the Supreme Court's role in the Federal government.

Sc #313 Perf.12 dark green cat. $6250
Sc #480 Perf.10 light green cat. $375

I agree. Looks to be a Perf.10 Scott #480.
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Edited by redwoodrandy - 01/04/2017 8:41 pm
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Posted 01/04/2017   8:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am glad you were happy with the service at Kelleher. Overall I have had good experience with them.

However, I am still perplexed on the appraisers analysis of the 5$ Marshall. The appraiser assumed it was a scott 313. That is a "monster of a stamp", especially centered as well as your copy. However, from the scan it appears to be perf 10, not perf 12. Thus, it is Scott 480 (perf 10). it looks to have been misidentified and put next to Scott 300-311 in the collection by original owner. If it truly is MNH Scott 313, I would assume they would proceed with getting it graded or at least a cert to authenticate.

I wish you the best. I very much hope I am wrong on this particular stamp. Perhaps others will chime in here and give opinion. Regardless it is nice collection especially colombians and trans miss and hope to see some of the stamps in a Kelleher catalog later this year. Keep us updated

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Posted 01/04/2017   9:42 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think you are right - Scott #480. The pessimist in me says they got the owner to consign...
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Posted 01/04/2017   10:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good luck. Let us know when the material goes up. Too bad about the $5, but hopefully there is a gem in there somewhere.
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