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Coil Experts On Forum?. Here Are Two. Some Help?

 
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Pillar Of The Community

United States
969 Posts
Posted 12/24/2016   11:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rgstamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I don't collect these vigorously, but have a few in collection.



(1) scott 348, perf 12 guide line pair. Any clue to help determine authenticity? Seems so easy to just perforate some imperf version (343).

(2) not sure. I think 412. perf 8 1/2 vertically. Is this how they were produced. I rarely see multiples, just singles and pairs? Maybe its some other number and I'm just missing it.

happy holiday

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2500 Posts
Posted 12/24/2016   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My amateur guesses: 348 - the holes look wrong to me / too small - never buy without certificate;
412 looks fine.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
969 Posts
Posted 12/24/2016   1:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Chasa,

thats awesome. Never thought about that. I matched holes sizes to a cert copy.. seems my copy has holes about 0.5-1 mm smaller on average. You must have x-ray eyes!! . or have looked at enough of these to spot it without measuring. I don't collect these in general and didn't purchase it. It was part of an old collection of family member I went through years ago. On the back somewhat wrote in pencil 343. There is a gum wrinkle, but NH. Too bad

rg
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Valued Member
324 Posts
Posted 12/24/2016   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lukusw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would not claim to be a coil expert. I've been learning about these the last year and I'm a sucker for the challenge of wash-frank coils, so I've learned some things. Generally, you look at:
1. Watermark (orientation for 1c and 2c varieties are different for booklets vs sheet/coils)
2. Perf holes (fakes are often "too clean" or the wrong gauge/size. Also, for flat plate coils like the ones you show, the holes should not line up across rows, whereas rotary coils will line up perfectly across rows)
3. Imperf Edges (true coils should have parallel edges--it's hard to trim a sheet stamp to have perfectly parallel edges. Fakes cut with a knife or scissors often have very sharp, crisp edges, whereas the genuine coil edges often will have a slightly rough appearance under magnification)

To my eye, the perfs on the "#348" look suspicious--too clean and possibly too small. The #412 looks legit to me (and very nice) :-)
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1414 Posts
Posted 12/25/2016   12:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The one cent perf 12 coil pair does not look good. A much larger scan would be needed to see enough detail around the perforation holes. Genuine coils were cut from sheets perforated in one direction and cut into strips in the other direction. The perforating machines had to pull the sheet through the perforator and the pins entered and left the paper at a slight angle to vertical. The pull on the sheet of paper would slightly elongate the perforation holes in the direction of the row and leave a pressure ridge on one side and pulled fibers on the other. Nominally, the perforation hole size is the same as the fake but genuine perforation holes are slightly elliptical, not round.

Large quantities of fake 1 and 2 perf 8 coils were made from imperforate coils. A larger more detailed scan of the 1 coil strip would be needed to confirm the perforation holes. (There are more genuine perf 8 coils than fakes, unlike the perf 12 ooils where genuine examples are few and far between. A large well known seller has sold three or four fake 388 coil singles and pairs within the last month. Select completed listings, filter to the 1900-1940 Unused category and sort by price descending. I don't know how many collectors are being hurt, but the number is not small.
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Edited by cfrphoto - 12/25/2016 12:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 12/25/2016   10:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like the holes in the pair and not for sure about the cut on top of the strips but thinking I don't like them either.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
969 Posts
Posted 12/25/2016   11:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you all for responding. It is very educational to learn how you all evaluate these, especially size/shape of perforations.
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United States
11888 Posts
Posted 12/25/2016   12:50 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"How To Spot Fake Coils" http://www.stampsmarter.com/learnin...keCoils.html

There are also additional pages which describe which coils are faked and which stamps the fakes may have come from.
Don
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