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Another Fancy Cancel Puzzler...

 
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   12:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stampman2002 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Okay, here's another one for the experts. This is Scott 147 with a neat fouled anchor cancel, two stars under the cross brace. I have not found a listing for this one either.

Thoughts?



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2678 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   12:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not that I'm any where near expert, but do collect fancy cancels.
First thought is it is from a smaller town, and not as common as other 'fouled anchor' cancels. The James Cole, banknote cancel book should have this one. That's what makes me think it was a smaller town, not as many copies of it available and one that he didn't catalogue.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I know. I checked Cole, Skinner-Eno, nothing WITH the two stars. I sure wish this one had stayed on the cover so we'd know where it came from
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Edited by Stampman2002 - 12/29/2016 1:41 pm
Valued Member
United States
29 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   4:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mdknight to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have the same cancel on #159. According to "A Guide to 19th Century United States Postmarks and Cancellations," Edited by Kenneth L. Gilman, it is from New York, NY. Used in 1873.



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Valued Member
United States
29 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   4:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mdknight to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also, "Billig's Philatelic Handbook, Volume 33, 19th Century United States Fancy Cancellations" says that it is one of the New York foreign mail cancels.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2678 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   4:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is a nice one. All part of collecting fancy cancels, the origins of many of them are lost because someone removed the stamp from its cover. I've only located a few of the fancies I have, couldn't find these two.



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6719 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   4:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. Two different devices of the same design. Note the symmetrical loops of the anchor rope on the 3 cent stamp. On the 6 cent stamp, the upper and lower loops of rope are noticeably different.
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Pillar Of The Community
4074 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   4:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The most obvious difference in the anchor cancels is the small circle at the top.
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Valued Member
United States
198 Posts
Posted 12/29/2016   9:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, The fouled anchor cancel on 3c stamp is not genuine, the one on 6c is genuine The masonic cancel in black on 3c at left is also faked - note the faint genuine cancel, possibly a target cancel, that is above the faked cancel. One noted US expert frequently made errors on fancy cancels on stamps where a fake fancy was added over a regular cancel ....
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Edited by Richard Frajola - 12/29/2016 9:09 pm
Valued Member
Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
218 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   08:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
is this a regular postmark cancel any opinion is welcome thanks

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7754 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   09:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is common and in my opinion seems to be used a lot on items that can not be machine cancelles.

Peter
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
504 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   09:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is not a fancy cancel but a general purpose rubber faced device issued in mass by the USPO for canceling stamps.

This is a double oval cancel used on registered mail and other mails. Beginning January 1, 1911 all postmarking on registered letters was to be on the back side of the item. However, especially 3rd and 4th class post offices, did not have an obliteration device to cancel stamps on the front side of a registered cover that did not contain at least the city and state of the post office.

This device first appears about 1916 to fill this need.

Can anyone else provide an example of its use before this date on any type of mail?

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Edited by hoosierboy - 06/30/2017 09:45 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2678 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   09:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Seems that it will be pretty tough to pin down the beginning use of a mute double oval postmark, No Date, or town. I've seen the cancel on lots of off cover stamps, which could have been to mail parcels.
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Valued Member
Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
218 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks a lot gentlemen
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
504 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   10:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, dating this device is problematic. A similar double oval device with the city at the top between the two oval lines and the state at the bottom with a date device in the center has been seen since the early 1880's. The same device without the date slugs in the center shows up on items we can date to about 1902. The challenge is the mute oval does not show up on year datable registered mail until (sparingly) about 1916 and predominantly about 1929 even though its existence would serve the mute canceling requirements on registered mail as of 1/1/1911. The quest continues!
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
718 Posts
Posted 06/30/2017   11:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Johan Buvelot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Example of a Registered letter from Kittanning PA to Indiana PA from January 22/23 1936. Shows the Registered cancellations on the back and the double oval cancel on the stamps. Kind regards, Johan.



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