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Type 1 Vs Type Iii, # 450 Or 488?

 
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
560 Posts
Posted 01/19/2017   5:49 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

We think we see Type III characteristics on these stamps. Two lines of shading in the ribbons. The toga seems to show a strong impression.

With help from a Scott catalogue and Stamp Smarter we have reduced the options. If these stamps are Type III, they would be a rotary press stamp. We do see mostly green ink on the backs. I would have thought that red ink would make them flat plate printing. Red ink on the bottom of seven strip. Both options have a single line watermark. We did look for watermarks on one strip of three. We did see a mark on one stamp that looked like a small curl?

Why would a red stamp have green ink on it's back?







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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7901 Posts
Posted 01/19/2017   6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We think the green ink was because the red stamps were stacked onto the green ones.

Peter
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
560 Posts
Posted 01/19/2017   7:46 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Do rotary press stamps have this type of ink impressions on their back?
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Posted 01/19/2017   7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Everything you see on the back is a result of poor storage *after* leaving the post office. The green ink is the tip-off.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/19/2017   8:13 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you John Becker and Peter,
even though you both have different opinion's.

I can now see where years of storage could leave this type of
? residue on what it was in contact with. Interesting!

? Are these stamps rotary press?
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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 01/19/2017 8:15 pm
Valued Member
Canada
8 Posts
Posted 01/19/2017   8:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DougN to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The only flat plate printing of a horizontal perf 10 coil is #442, which is a Type I. So, if this is not a Type I, it must be a rotary printing.

If the paper is watermarked, it must be #449 (Type I) or #450 (Type III). If unwatermarked, it must be #487 (Type II) or #488 (Type III).
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Posted 01/19/2017   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The coil strips look like type III Scott 488. The type I Scott 449 has a distinctive red shade. Generally, type II 487 and type III 450 aren't as well inked. In any case the scan is too small to identify the type the usual way. The strips should be checked for watermarks as part of due diligence.

The ink stuck to the gum is from contact with other stamps in the presence of moisture. It is possible that the stamps stuck to the backs of the strips lost enough ink from the design to be ruined.

It is not common to see rotary press coils with ink on the back from production.
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Edited by cfrphoto - 01/19/2017 10:05 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 01/20/2017   1:08 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Clark for your interest and advice.

We have confirmed that all three strips have the single line
watermarks. After looking a second time, the small curl I had mentioned seeing is an S, clear as day. The other two strips while wet showed U's and S's.

I hope this scan is large enough to determine that they are type III.





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Valued Member
Canada
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Posted 01/20/2017   1:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DougN to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Type III it is. So Scott 450.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
560 Posts
Posted 01/20/2017   3:24 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you DougN, we thought we saw evidence of type III.

When I looked at the # 449's in the catalogue, boy did I wish they were type I. Joint line pair MNH $28,000. Wow. Better keep looking!
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