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Perf Punch On Back Of Stamp

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Posted 02/23/2017   11:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Newby,

I am not an expert on gum but would love to see back side posts of reference copies of certified original gum examples esp 19th century stamps, so all of us have stuff to compare to. I don't collect unused og because I am admittedly not adept enough. Cost is very high to collect ognh and too easy to get fooled. Perhaps one day I'll be able to tread this area with an educated eye.
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Posted 02/24/2017   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There were a lot of collectors who took extremely good care of their stamps, I have some nice pre-1900 stamps that I know are original gum and never hinged.

Here is a block of 15 Scott 210's








Here is my 5 Pan Am, it is also never hinged and shows the perf pin marks.



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Edited by stallzer - 02/24/2017 5:25 pm
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Posted 02/24/2017   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod thanks again for your view. I can see what you are saying but seems the gum wouldn't have the same consistity thru out the back of the stamp. Wouldn't you be able to see thining of the gum and seems there were be bloches in the gum?
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Posted 02/24/2017   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rgstamp yeah it never hurts to err on the side of being cautious. Very understandable.

stallzer nice stamps. I like that 5c Pan Am and nice perf pin strike with it. Your centering is a little better than the one I have. I think these are a great issue.
I agree that some collectors take care of their collections in different ways especially in the earlier years. Some had an insight back then and kept them in glassine rather in stock books or hinged on pages.

Thanks everyone for your knowledge and time for your replies. This is a great place!

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36251 Posts
Posted 02/24/2017   10:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but seems the gum wouldn't have the same consistity thru out the back of the stamp. Wouldn't you be able to see thining of the gum and seems there were be bloches in the gum?


Not at all.
I think you may be surmising an extreme condition of "melting".
With gum it can be just a degree or two, between two states.
Any stamp gum is in a particular state, where moisture content is enough to have it stable, not moist enough to adhere, and not dry enough to crack the gum and the paper in some instances.

Take a stamp hinge, you need to introduce enough moisture to make it tacky to adhere, but not "slippery" where it will cement the stamp to the paper.

For the record. Glassines
Stamps should not be kept in glassines for any length of time, the paper degrades and will damage pristine stamps under certain conditions.
A stock book / Hagner / Mounts is preferable.

Cheers




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Posted 02/24/2017   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stallzer,

thanks for those pics. A few comments, nothing here meant to be critical, just trying to educate myself on "gum".

Looking at your block of 15, particularly upper row stamps.... I notice some slight toning of the top perforations on front side of stamps. Generally, from my reading, many believe this is an indication of a regum job. I don't know? Maybe all I see is the row of stamps above it cut off so it looks a little toned.

5c pan am is a beauty. I have a stamp or two similar to this (but not as nicely centered). Everytime I look at my unused pan ams under mag, they appear to have gum on perf tip fibers, so I assume they are a regum. I'll scan a few tomorrow and post. I'm curious if there is a better way to scan the "back" of stamps to better analyze gum. Maybe we should be scanning 4-6 perf tips at high resolution to better analyze.

rg
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Posted 02/24/2017   10:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My scanner does a horrible job with scanning gum. As a matter of fact my scanner does a horrible job of scanning. I'll never buy a 3 in 1 HP again, or any 3 in 1 for that matter. Here is the result of my Pan AM shown above scanning the back.


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Posted 02/25/2017   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod222, I heard and read both ways on the glassine storage. Some say good some say it's a great way. When I acquired my mini works of art there were some stamps in mounts and some in glassine which now most are in mounts. But the rest that are in glassine look as good as that first day.
I guess as long as there are no harmful chemicals in the storage type everything should be fine.
When I arrive home I'll try to scan the back laying flat down and post it for comparision.

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Posted 02/25/2017   09:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
below is scan 1600 dpi of corner of a 4c pan am. the stamp has a hinge remnant on back.

I still think it is regum despite the hinge remnant. When I look at this stamp under 30x lighted microscope, I can see small gum remnants in fibers at perf tips. In fact I see this in almost every older unused perforated stamp with gum that I own. I can not see it at low mag like 5-10, but when I take out the 30x lighted micro I see it! Its not obvious on the scan.

I just can't figure out if there is a way to scan the backs of stamps to evaluate gum better. I mess around with contrast/exposure/temperature to modify but can't seem to bring out the glistening nature of gum. Holding it at angle and taking picture with camera seems to show the glisten of the gum better.






Here is my main issue. Everywhere I look it tells me to look at fibers in perf tips and if there is gum stuck in fibers, then its likely regummed stamp. Well, I have old certed US stamps that show gum residue in perf tips and these stamps have certificates that they are OG.

I can't figure it out? Perhaps this is dumb way to evaluate OG vs. RG. If a person separates two original gum stamps, pulls them apart, wouldn't gum residue on these fibers pull out with the separation leading to some gum residue in perf tips.
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Posted 02/25/2017   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rgstamp, good question on the pull apart of perfs. I to have read also to look for this in perfs. To me when I look at the pull apart of perfs (again no expert) but I see both on the perfs. Some fibers I see not much gum on the fibers if any at all but then on some fibers I do see the least amount of gum. But I also see that the gum that is on the fibers is of a certain lets say viscosity/thickness in relation to the thickness of the gum on the stamp itself.

On some of the regummued stamp that I have seen there is not that same viscosity/thickness as it looks like it is thicker than what would be on the stamp. Now again that is just what I see. Also the perfs on an original gum stamp seems the fibers would/should be a whiter or lighter color(because of no gum on them; being the same color of paper used); than the stamp that would be regummed as it seems you would see the gum all the way to the outside of the perfs and the perf fibers wouldn't be lighter in color as the fiber would be under the new gum. Maybe the regummed stamps that I viewed may had been badly regummed.
Another thing I guess that could be applied is to know the thickness of the paper used and the thickness of the gum applied and then use a micrometer and gauge the thickness of the over all stamp. I mean do we know what the thickness of the gum used during that period is?

I'm sure there are a few knowledgeable people here that will agree on or rebut our ideas. It would be very educational if one or more would join in and talk about their views on this.

Thanks SCF!


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Posted 02/25/2017   12:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rgstamp here is my 4c Pan Am back if it helps. It is very light hinged and og gum.

https://www.stampcommunity.org/go/link.asp?target http://s784.photobucket.com/user/Ne...dm.jpeg.html target _blank rel nofollow " border="0" style='cursor:default' onClick='doimage(this,event)'>
URL=http://s784.photobucket.com/user/NewbyStamper/media/296%20Electic%20Automobile_zpssimavoug.jpeg.html
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Posted 02/25/2017   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Newby,

I think you are right on in the idea of thick "clumps" of gum in the perf fibers or edges of perf holes in "bad" regum jobs.

I will try to scan some other stamps/examples to see what others think of this.

rg

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Posted 02/25/2017   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also the front of the Pan Am stamp. Can you tell if from a mount or glassine storage? Just curious.
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Edited by Newby Stamper - 02/25/2017 12:56 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36251 Posts
Posted 02/25/2017   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess as long as there are no harmful chemicals in the storage type everything should be fine.


We can bring one's attention to specifics, however it is up to the individual
to act upon that advice or reject it.
I would suggest guessing is not an approved solution.

I have seen Glassine 60 years old look pristine, and I have seen it disintegrating,
it depends on the individuals storage.
No article can be proven to have been in glassine.

Tread your own path.

American Philatelic society:

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Posted 03/01/2017   6:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Newby Stamper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod222 thanks again. It's always up to that individual to take or reject. I've read the glassine story in the past and I just don't believe all of it.

The article states to avoid the glassine and any product like it was the plague that "the chemical migration is severe". Thats big! To me avoiding something like it had the plague would be staying away as far as possible and do not come in contact with it. Don't buy it don't let your stamps touch them, but the article turns and states 20 years is not uncommon for short term storage of them and I guess as long as you don't leave your stamps in them indefinitely then I guess you should be fine. I mean is it the plague or what?
You yourself said you have seen them 60 years old in pristine condition. Did they have the plague? I've seen them as well to be as old.

The article further states that the glassine will trap water if your stamp room is humid. Well, if your stamp room is humid; I guess there will be moisture trapped in not only the glassine but your mounts, any paper product you have, stock books.......your stamps! So, I wouldn't say that it only happens to glassines.

Also, if no article can be proven to have been in glassine; where is the plague? Why are they soo bad? Could it depend on individual storage?
I just do not believe that glassines are as bad as being giving in the article. You would think if they are as bad as the article states your stamps would be ruined just by the mear contact with them but yet they have been storing stamps a long time. Well, at least as old as I am anyway.
Sounds like someone is getting a kick back to me.


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