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Roosevelt Proofs Presentation Album Images?

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Posted 03/31/2017   1:28 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rick,
Got your message, sending you an email...
Don
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Posted 03/31/2017   3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a fuzzy recollection of having seen a pic of the page with numbers 1 and 2 on it, with 3 and 4 arranged in a parallel vertical duo 1/3 of the distance from edge to edge away from the first pair with year label between each vertical duo. Both sets on the same page. Will try to recall the pic and will post it if I find it.
-----
Further recall:

Reference: Brazer's Historical Catalog...:The 1847 Issue, p. 29, "Two sets of the 1847 issue were mounted on the same album page, those labeled '1847' were clear prints, .... Of those labeled '1876' many were slipped or blurred, prints from the same die -...."

No picture, but this should settle the question about how many pages were devoted to the 1847 issue and its reprint.


BTW if you wish to have pics of the full bordered pages throughout (the most accurate images) I can provide scans for the last two pages of the large and small Bank Notes (1883-88 and 1890). Say the word and I will post them as I did with the page for 1875-82.
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Edited by essayk - 03/31/2017 3:15 pm
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Posted 03/31/2017   3:45 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Makes sense. Please do provide links to the full page images. You don't have a better quality image for the 1851 page do you? The one I included is the only one I found anywhere on line and it is quite low quality.

Having the two sets of 1847s on the same page makes sense. Also the fuzzy images for the second set is consistent with the letter I posted. I'm not sure where the idea came from that they modified the reproduction dies to make them look like the originals. That idea is included in the Smithsonian article, but not sure it is true. I will be studying the images more closely to see if I can detect any difference between the proofs marked as 1847 and the actual reproduction stamps.

R
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Edited by rlsny - 03/31/2017 3:46 pm
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Posted 03/31/2017   9:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please do provide links to the full page images.



Sorry, there are no links. I will post scans of material in my collection as I did for the other one. That is subject to the 200Kb limit, but seemed to work out well for the one? Or no?
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Posted 03/31/2017   9:59 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, optimized hi-res scans look fine to me. Thanks.
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Posted 03/31/2017   10:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add YeaPolska to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The two sets of 1847s are on the same page. This from Heritage auctions



Splicing from the previously posted images - 1847 on left, 1876 on right.





Siegel has 3 single 3P2s listed in their archives. I've cropped these but you can clearly see the backing paper on the original scans.

Sale 1040 lot 1011


Sale 993 lot 226, which they describe as "distinct doubling of the design in the form of a kiss print". Looks like the 1876 version.
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Posted 03/31/2017   10:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Crouse27 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking through my notes I came across a great research article in case you wish to look it up.

Burns, Ronald (1994). Bureau Issues Association Research Paper #7. A Study of the Production Records for the 1903 and 1914-1915 Printings of the "Roosevelt" and "Panama-Pacific" Small Die Proofs.

Some salient points made in the article. Originally the POD ordered 75 albums in December 1902. The order was revised 16 days later to include the Newspaper/Periodical stamp designs. The order was updated again in early February 1903 to create an additional 10 albums. Proof production was initiated January 12, 1903 and completed March 5, 1903. 293 different dies were used to print the total 308 small die prints.

Die 88 was used to print the 1847 and 1876 First Issues/Reissues. Die 88 was the 1876 die for both stamps. Die 88 was crisply impressed to simulate the 1847 issues, and somewhat blurry impressed to replicate the 1876.

There is no discussion of the page layout in the article.
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Edited by Crouse27 - 03/31/2017 10:58 pm
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Posted 04/01/2017   07:40 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Crouse75, research paper #7 is no doubt the most detailed document on the album. The article on Siegel's site is written by its author : https://siegelauctions.com/enc/Roosevelt.htm

Is it possible to get a full copy of the paper somehow? Am I correct that there a lot more details there than in the article?

Thanks YeaPolska for finding those images.
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Posted 04/02/2017   5:35 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm happy to announce that, with Don's help, I've built a page on Stamp Smarter to hold the Roosevelt Proof images and analysis. There is still plenty to do, but I'd be interested in any feedback on what's there so far. I did a lot of work on the 1861 stamps. This is an area of great complexity and I try to sort it out in the article. The complexity comes from the attempt in the album to recreate the first design/premiere gravure stamps and the renumbering of those stamps by Scott. I'd be interested in feedback on other anomalies to investigate, corrections or additions to what is already there.

Here is the link:
http://www.stampsmarter.com/proof/Home_proofs.html

Please note the Google album is not longer available.

Rick
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Edited by rlsny - 04/02/2017 5:36 pm
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Posted 04/02/2017   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A small suggestion - please credit the source of each illustration unless you have scanned pages in your own possession.
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Posted 04/02/2017   6:12 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I'll do that. I think rather than each image - I have lost track of exactly which came from where - I'll list the various sources. Only one scan is from my personal collection. Essayk contributed one and has offered a couple more. Most are from various auction houses' old auction listings.
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