1c 1 Franklin 1857 Type VA Or Another Type?

Douglas,
On your scan of 5 stamps, numbered 1-5 left to right:

1) Ty II, Plate 2, B-relief, Scott #20

2) I think its: Ty IIIA, Plate 11, A-relief, Scott #22

3) Ty II, Plate 12, B-relief, Scott #20

4) Ty I, Plate 12, C-relief, Scott #18

5) Ty I, Plate 12, C-relief, Scott #18

Douglas, wrt the enlarged image you posted previously. I believe rgstamp was correct--it is a D Relief, and is indeed a Type Va from Plate 5. 39L5.

Nice one Dudley...perfect match in Doporto. Complete miss for me!
Thanks! Ray

Geez Ray, according to my vast records :) You own that position. Unused even! Early impression too!

Winston, you never fail to amaze me.
I was in Cabo on vacation when you helped me with that one.

It's still difficult for me to be able to tell the difference between the C, D Type Va reliefs, and the E's when the top is short....as obviously I missed that one, and don't know how...
Here's my 39L5

Ray, one way to distinguish among those reliefs is by the length of the fragments of the lower label frame line. The line extends farther under the E of ONE on the C Relief than it does on the others, and it extends farther under the E of CENT on the E Relief than it does on the D Relief.

Dudley, thanks for the tip. I'll take a look....appreciate it!
Ray

I'll take credit for D relief call on stamp in question. There are some easy to see differences that would make this call per Nienken. I will give Dudley kudos for plate and ID as Va. this is another example of a stamp that PF,APS,or PSE would have to plate to get identification correct as a Va. I think it's borderline and first glance I would have put it as V, possibly from plate 5. I'm not aware of the concept of "hybrid" stamps from plate 5,as the III/IIIa examples from plate 4 depending on the completeness of bottom frame line based on time of production. I wonder what PSE would have called this stamp without paying a premium for plating it??????

I would like to call to attention that the level of ornament completion at right of ray stamp compared to Douglas is significant enough that I would call ray's stamp Va without a doubt, and Douglas stamp a V.

By definition, a D Relief without side scratches is Type Va.

Going thru an old Elbe Universal, I find that I do have a 1c Franklin. Ah, a 24 I thought. Knowing next to nothing about 1857 Franklins, I non the less removed it from the showguard mount and found a pencil notation on back. Put this in the Elbe some 30 years ago.
Is it a type IIIa, a 22?
I'll include a reduced size scan of the back, maybe someone will recognize the printing style.
Thank you.










Edit to change image size

The Type IIIa notation is wrong. It is a Type V, Scott #24 from one of the F relief positions.

I thought as much, thank you.

The side ornaments are complete on types III & IIIA. The IIIA has a break on top or bottom outer line but not both.