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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 3,243Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1742 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add essayk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here is one of my more recent acquisitions from a Siegel auction.





Not a stamp of course, but philatelically significant.

Can anyone tell me what this is and why it matters?

Hint: I got this one at the same time:



What does this have to do with anything?

Can you tell who made these?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7367 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   12:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen the actual busts. :-)
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Pillar Of The Community
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2415 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen a few busts in my time...
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Pillar Of The Community
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1748 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   2:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add disi123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've seen a few busts in my time...

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Pillar Of The Community
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2880 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   2:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rileysan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The images of Franklin and Washington appear to be pressed from the same dies used in the 1851 1c and 3c stamps. Are these unlisted Essays from Toppan, et al?

Brian
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Brian Riley
APS 223349
Valued Member
United States
351 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   3:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampalotapus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice.

Regards,
Stampalotapus
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1742 Posts
Posted 09/10/2015   3:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are on the right track, Brian. I have to get ready for tonight's club meeting, but will get back to this tomorrow and give you more of the skinny on it then.

As for checking out the busts - (ahem) I won't touch that.
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Posted 09/10/2015   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
KGB, obviously you have spent a lot of time in museums, to have seen some busts in your time.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Posted 09/10/2015   9:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As for these busts, think W/F series. And 220 and the later bureau issue. They are ABNCO proofs.
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Valued Member
324 Posts
Posted 09/13/2015   09:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lukusw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a piece from the Toppan, Carpenter, Co banknote that they used as their design for the 1851 1cent and 3cent stamps. I assume because of the number below the Washington vignette, it is some type of early draft for the stamp design? Very nice! (sorry about the poor quality photo...it was the best I could find online)

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Edited by lukusw - 09/13/2015 09:39 am
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Posted 09/13/2015   12:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chipg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those vignettes on tan cards come from the American Bank Note Company archives. They are samples/proofs from the various dies they had in their "catalog" that they would use for checks, stamps, and other security paper. The numbers refer to their die numbers or filing system to allow them to find the right one.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1742 Posts
Posted 09/13/2015   6:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I promised to give you the skinny. Here is a taste, snippets from a forthcoming article I have just written.

These are die proofs from the archives of the American Bank Note Company (ABNCo). Each is printed on India paper which has been mounted on a heavy Kraft paper, cardboard-like stock which was originally part of a file folder used in the archives to hold more examples of each die impression. Each folder bore a proof on the outside that illustrated the contents, and made the connection to the company inventory records. These proofs were "pulled" at the time American did the renumbering of its stock of dies sometime in the 1880s or 90s [working on pinning that down]. That was when the die numbers V36955 and V37991 were added. The relation between the numeric sequencing of the die numbers and chronology for the creation of these dies is not clear, nor is the interval between them. However, both these die numbers are lower (earlier?) than that of the die essay presently listed in Scott as 5-E1Eg.

The first of these two dies had its origin back about 1845 when it was created by Toppan, Carpenter & Co. for use on bank issued paper currency, aka "bank notes." Here is an example of the earliest dated use of this composite vignette on an unissued but signed 10 dollar remainder note of the New Orleans Canal and Banking Company, dated June 1, 1846. It bears the imprint of Toppan, Carpenter & Co., Philad(elphia) & New York. Subsequently more than half a dozen notes were designed making use of this same composite vignette.



[big skip]

The philatelic connection to the portrait vignettes on these notes begins nearly 5 years later than the first appearance of the composite vignette. In competition with several other bidders, Toppan, Carpenter, Casilear & Co submitted essays and a bid proposal for the 1851 contract to produce postage stamps. Their earliest design essays for the stamps (pictured here) feature portraits derived from this composite vignette die. These were placed within rococo frames.




[skip]

The rejection of the rococo frame for the three cent resulted in a complete redesign of that denomination, and a complete abandonment of the Washington vignette from the composite design of 1845/6. Here are the final approved forms of the lowest denomination stamps for the issue of 1851:









You will find a lot more detail, including a color scan of the Georgetown note, here: http://goscf.com/t/34014


Some old subjects just get better and better as new data come along.

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Edited by essayk - 09/14/2015 10:08 am
Valued Member
324 Posts
Posted 09/16/2015   8:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lukusw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, EssayK! Great info. Was the American Bank Note Co an extension of Toppan, et al, then? Since it looks like they continued the same proof designs...
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Edited by lukusw - 09/16/2015 8:49 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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1742 Posts
Posted 09/17/2015   12:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Was the American Bank Note Co an extension of Toppan, et al, then?


Formally and technically, no. But...

ABNCo started as an association of 7 bank note engraving companies in 1858. All parts of Toppan, Carpenter and Co except for the facilities in Philadelphia were taken into the association, along with their entire inventory of dies, machinery, supplies, and even such personnel as desired to make the transition. The first president of this new venture was Charles Toppan himself, so the TCCo commitment was substantial.

The stamp production portion of TCCo in Philadelphia came under the principle leadership of Joseph R. Carpenter, a relative of S. R. Carpenter who was a principal in TCCo. This company inherited the stock of dies for stamp related production, adding to it in their efforts to get the contract for 1861. That failed, but Carpenter was able to continue operations, with a new partner, for most of another decade, and produced the first run of federal documentary and proprietary revenues in three series. When that failed in 1872, he established the Philadelphia Bank Note Co. and used the old stock of dies to help create new essays in his unsuccessful bid for the contract of 1877.

After Carpenter's death in about 1892 the stock of dies from TCCo and Carpenter's additions became available for sale. It is possible that ABNCo ended up with some of those too, but most were not obtained by them.

Long answer, I know, but the question was not as simple as it seemed.
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Valued Member
324 Posts
Posted 09/22/2015   02:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lukusw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Essayk, again thanks for the info.
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