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George Perkins Stamp Cover Collection

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/26/2010   4:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
the autographs are well beyond any stamp value it might have.
the other stuff bonds , stock certs, etc.. depends on stamp and any historical value
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
642 Posts
Posted 10/26/2010   5:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billw2 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bob,

With pretty much any historical document or cover there's absolutely no hard and fast rule with regards to valuation and with covers, catalog value is effectively meaningless for most items.

Take, say, a 30c 1861, scott #71. I think that Catalog value on cover is $400 or so. That would apply to, say, a clean and fresh double rate cover going to France with a nice stamp on it, a common cover. Now, if it's a Payen Correspondence cover, it would likely bring a premium, but most double rate covers to France will bring cat or less. Now, say that cover was used from Utah Territory? It's rare and easily over a grand. If it's a single rate but a supplementary mail use? $1,500-2k easy. If it's accompanied by 2 #65s, the common 3c stamps but used on a Prussian Closed Mail cover to Hong Kong? It's worth about as much as a new Corolla, maybe a Camry.

Same with the stamped documents, most of those are, I would gather, revenue stamps. Say you have a mortgage document, it could have philatelic value, or, if say the revenue stamps are common but the mortgage holder was, I dunno, Robert E. Lee, then the item has value for the signature.

My experience really is with classic stamps on cover going to foreign destinations, and I know a bit about the 3c 51s.

As far as plate #s go, it depends on the stamp. The plate # indicates which specific plate printed the stamps. In some cases many different plates were produced, while on the stamp that I collect, the 24c 61, only one plate was used, plate #6.

Keep posting what you have, it's great stuff so far!

Bill
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United States
642 Posts
Posted 10/26/2010   5:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billw2 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, and the term "cover" applies to either an envelope or a folded letter.
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Rest in Peace
Canada
6750 Posts
Posted 10/26/2010   6:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Puzzler to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revised post with correct information.

If your Canada stamps are these:

then they are the 1922 King George V Admiral series, Scott catalog booklet pane #107c (in my 2005 Unitrade Canada specialized catalogue, which uses Scott numbers.) making what you have 2 x 107c = # BK7.

Pane 107c has a variety where one stamp is inverted (if I am reading the catalog correctly) and that sucker is $12,000.

A normal pane 107c is $420.00 Very Fine to $200.00 Fine which is the centering. The picture above (poorly centered I think) is listed on eBay for $200.00 now. Never hinged percentage increase is plus 100% so wow.

The two panes in a cover together are English $900.00 and French $1,100.00.

All this is from the catalog. There is also much specialist literature about this stamp series. There are plate 'error' varieties also.

After being so upset after I realized I had given out the wrong information the first time around, I laid my catalogue on a mustard, relish and hot dog sandwich combination. Never done that before. Good timing really, I had been putting off getting an up to date catalogue, now I have an excuse. I am happy. Beats having tons of paper notes falling out of the thing every time I move it around.
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Edited by Puzzler - 10/26/2010 7:08 pm
Valued Member
United States
64 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   12:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Puzzler Thank you for the information - those are indeed the stamps.

As an update on Phase I.

I have completed my preliminary inventory of the papers in this section. There are 746 documents and letters that I am inventorying as distinct items.

I also wonder where is the best place to get information about all of the "Special Stamps" not located in the regular postage stamp book. I am referring to Documentary and Revenue Stamps primarily but I also have two Confederate 5 cent stamps on a cover and numerous foreign stamps before 1900. Is there a web source of is eBay my best source?

Also does anyone know of a book on Postmarks by state and town. The collection of covers was mostly sorted by City/Town name - there are 172 in that group - some "Towns" are not on the map today. I am working up list of the towns involved but not too many are big cities.

There are 28 folded letters with only hand written postal notes - 3 are Express Letter referring to the courier service - not a US post office. These are mostly legal issues some arrests etc. The addressee was the District Attorney from 1840-1860.

There are 7 folded covers with stamps nearly all are shipping related with 4 from Nantucket in the 1860s.

There are 68 Receipts, Notes and Bills most with documentary stamps but not all. I have two with the signature of General Chamberlain from Maine - the hero of Little Round Top who got the Congressional Medal of Honor and became President of Bowdoin College. The signature is 1877 as President of the college.

There are 84 checks and Promissory notes all with stamps. I only picked out the different styles and different stamps. There are about 1000 more in bundles by year from 1864 to 1874.

There are 35 stocks and Bonds. The bonds all have some of the coupons still attached and most of the Stock certificates have stamps. The earliest is for 10 shares of the Nantucket Steam Boat Company dated 1821. I did not include over 2000 stock certificates with their attached correspondence from a single mill (Potomska Mill of New Bedford, Mass). The owners are a who's who of the big wigs from my former home area. I have put the documents in their original filing order by certificate number - they were thrown into a box and some were damaged. I estimate 2000 are still intact and in good shape. Is it worth going through these one by one?

I have identified 20 autographed letters and Documents some with impressive stamps. The best names - Andrew Johnson as President with Seward, James Buchanan as Secty of State, Mckinley, two JFK letters as a senator and my favorite Hetty Green. There is Bing Crosby and an Eddie Cantor along with a few others in a 1930's autograph book that I have not yet deciphered.

I have 38 postcards separately identified of all types. Also a box of 500 postcards that have the embossed postage - no pictures. They are boring dealing with business matters.

I have 55 stamped documents with multiple types of revenue stamps attached. Deeds, Leases, Wills, Death Certificates, Probate papers etc.

There are 15 pieces of Ships mail several from Australian Transport ships and a few International in nature.

There are some early ca.1890 Special Delivery letters. Some have Special Delivery stamps.

There are 35 Shipping related documents - Bills of sale, Shipping Papers, Crew Lists and letters pertaining to operations on board or difficulties in port.

There are three books and boxes of loose stamps - 1000s. Many are documentary and revenue stamps removed from documents. They date to the Civil War era based on the surviving intact copies. There are many foreign stamps from the 20th century as well. I have culled out 34 interesting groups so far. One group of 15 stamps from Spain commemorating Columbus - including an odd Triangular stamp. There are several unused "Duck Stamps" - very curious. I am just starting that undertaking. Possibly not worth the effort I fear.

There are 32 papers and letters with no attached stamps. Included in this group are the childhood school papers of a Charles Dana. I have no idea why they were saved. Anyone know a Charles Dana?
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   12:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It sound to me like RevStampMan should be tracked down. He's my revenue genius hero!
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   01:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely fascinating descriptions of this material.

To answer your final question first, check out this link on Charles Anderson Dana, could this be the one referred to in your description? It would seem to fit given that a lot of the material is Civil War era:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Anderson_Dana

As for Revenue stamps, you may want to check out your local library for a copy of the Scott Specialized Catalog of U.S. Stamps. The Specialized catalog has specific sections on all types of U.S. Revenue stamps and should help you get a handle on what you have. (There is also another section that values U.S. Duck Stamps.)

Just as a bit of history on the stock certificate from the Nantucket Steamboat Company, you may be interested in this excerpt from the History of Bristol County, Massachusetts:

"New Bedford, Vineyard and Nantucket Steamboat Company; incorporated March 21, 1854. Capital, seventy thousand dollars. Edward D. Mandell, president; Andrew G. Peirce, treasurer; Edward T. Peirce, clerk; Edward D. Mandell, Jonathan Bourne, Andrew G. Peirce, Samuel P. Burt, New Bedford; Charles Bradley, Vineyard Haven, directors. This company owns and runs the steamer "Martha's Vineyard," five hundred and twenty-five tons burden, also steamer " Monohansett," four hundred and seventy-five tons, between New Bedford and Edgartown, Oak Bluffs, Vineyard Highlands, Vineyard Haven, and Wood's Hole. Also steamers "Island Home" and " River Queen" to Nantucket."

Since your stock certificate predates this info., I find there was apparently an earlier "Nantucket Steamboat Company" dating to 1821.

I have not done a great deal of research on it, but apparently the same Peirce family involved in the Nantucket Steamboat Company also had interests in the Potomska Mill, so there is definitely a connection there.

A lot of what I am finding on the internet suggests that there are archives available at the Nantucket Historical Association at the following web address which may be a good resource for you to check, if you haven't done so already:

http://www.nha.org/
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Edited by wt1 - 10/29/2010 02:18 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4106 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   08:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
bob, as I posted early on in this thread, you should get a copy of the scott specialized catalog.
It just so happens that I have a 2008 edition. (not great for pricing, but great for identification). If you want it, you can have it for $5.00 plus postage (media mail).

Some of the early revenue's can go for thousands of dollars.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   08:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some of the early revenue's can go for thousands of dollars.


...and some early revenues go for a dollar or even less. That's why it's critical that you have a catalog to identify the average material from the "gems".
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Valued Member
United States
64 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   1:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stampvirgin Thanks for the offer I will take you up on it. Just need total and where to send it. The forum would not let me send you an email - don't know why.

wt1 Are you from the New Bedford area? You seem very familiar with it. Mention the Potomska mill to most people and you get a blank stare.

The child Charles E. Dana would be the right age to a be a son of a man born in 1819 and his father's name was Chas. Dana which appears in several places. The type of private school and the tie to "Brook Farm" make me wonder if that is the connection. There is other correspondence in the files with a Ricketson who had connections as well. Regarding the Dana documents themselves, the level of grammar and the nature of the child's writing made me wonder if he was just terribly talented or if he had a ghost writer (the penmanship also looked too nice to be a child). Many of the documents are only signed C. Dana or Chas. Dana as was the style. The full name of the child is given only on the certificates of merit issued by the school. All of these papers were found in a single envelope, but the certificates were folded INTO different poems and writings. I inferred the awards were for the written works. But clearly all of the papers in the envelope are closely related. The poems may be the work of the father, just placed with the awards the child received. I will do more research on the school when time permits.

I am under some pressure to sell, but I am leaning toward slowing down the process to allow complete discovery of the value of all these items. If any of these poems are unpublished works of Charles A. Dana, they may be historically significant not just of monetary value.

I re-examined the stock certificate from the steam Boat company. The date 1821 was from the preceding document. The Certificate is numbered 11 and is dated Aug. 7th, 1842. The entity is the "Nantucket Steam Boat Company". The certificate is issued in Nantucket. It must be a predecessor company that operated only out of Nantucket. The president of the co. was David (Shain) or Thain it is hard to decipher the hand. The Sec'y Treas'r is Edward H. Barker.

The names associated with the 1854 Steamboat line are all over the documents in the file. Samuel Burt was a banker in New Bedford and I have several hundred checks drawn on that bank. Pierce and Bourne were both involved with the Potomska Mill and I have many documents they signed. Like I said the names in the Potomska files are a Who's who of New Bedford at that time.

I have added the Nantucket website to my list of things to do, when time permits. I also know that New Bedford and Nantucket Whaling Museums may both be interested in these files and the last time I checked they were competitive about acquiring new materials. It would be interesting and potentially profitable if they each want to bid on these things.

I have to work on more indexing - later.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I live about an hour or so from New Bedford and MA History is kind of a hobby of mine.

As for the updated information you provide, let me share this link on the Nantucket Steamboat Company you refer to:

http://books.google.com/books?id=n2...1842&f=false

With the updated name information of "Charles E. Dana", disregard my previous post as I just found more pertinent information on him through geneaology and census records. The originals are searchable on-line through your local library, but to summarize:

Charles E. Dana's parents, Charles & Louisa Dana were age 49 and 44 respectively in the 1860 Census, noted as living in Westport, MA where the father was listed as a "hotel keeper". They had three children: Charles E. (age 21 in 1860, born abt. 1840), Frank R. (age 19 in 1860); and Caroline M. (age 6 in 1860).

The 1880 census shows Charles E. Dana at age 40 with the occupation "Saloon Keeper". He is noted as living at home with his widowed mother at 10 Second Street, New Bedford, MA.

The 1910 census shows Charles E. Dana to be age 71 and single, living with his sister Caroline M. Dana (age 56). His occupation is noted to be "Cook at Hotel" and I believe his address at that time was 52 Spring Street, New Bedford, MA.
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Edited by wt1 - 10/29/2010 2:02 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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4106 Posts
Posted 10/29/2010   2:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampvirgin to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ahh.. bob... hate to say it.. but someone else spoke up before you. as the book was advertised in the for sale section. Sorry it is gone.

However, if you look at Amazon.com and search for "scott specialized catalog of united states stamps"
there are some 2009 ones from $30.00 and some 2008 ones from $11.00. they are sent out via media mail so shipping is cheap.

click here http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...+stamps
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Valued Member
United States
64 Posts
Posted 10/30/2010   12:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stampvirgin I always forget about Amazon - I ordered the book tonight - thanks for the full title.

WT1 That Charles Dana is sure a heck of a lot less interesting. A childless saloon keeper who lived with his widowed mother is not a character who will get extra $ for his school papers.

The Nantucket article was very interesting. I have run into letters from both of the Capts of the Telegraph and the Massachusetts already. I also noted they mentioned Holmes Hole. I have a cover with that postmark but have no idea where it is. Do you know?
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 10/30/2010   01:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I never heard of Holmes Hole either, but it sounds like something in the New England coast (like Woods Hole). UPDATE: I just learned something new! Courtesy of Wikipedia, Holmes Hole is what is now Vineyard Haven, MA based on quote below:

"Known by the original Wampanoag inhabitants as Nobnocket, this area was first referred to by the colonial settlers as Homes Hole; "Homes" from a Wampanoag term for "old man," and "Hole" meaning a sheltered inlet. By the 1800s it was more commonly spelled Holmes Hole after the descendants of John Holmes (17301812) who had settled in the village during the second half of the eighteenth century. In 1871 the village officially changed its name to Vineyard Haven. Though the name Vineyard Haven technically refers only to one section of the town of Tisbury, the names are used interchangeably, with Vineyard Haven now being a commonly used title for the whole town."

This coincides with the postal history website of discontinued post offices suggesting that a post office in Holmes Hole was only active from 1797 to 1871:

Holmes Hole, Dukes County (1797-1871)

That information alone should make any cover with a post office cancellation by that name in that time period worth a premium to collectors. By the way, what date is on the cover you have?
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Edited by wt1 - 10/30/2010 01:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 10/30/2010   01:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billw2 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Holmes Hole? There's quite a few 1861 era covers from there to some fantastic destinations. Peru, Celebes, Bermuda, Mauritius, etc comes to mind. Most were sent to Ships at these locations.
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