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Let's Talk About Machins

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Posted 12/23/2020   06:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NSK

Can you confirm the phosphor bar width of your Questa. Questa is 5mm so I am 100% on my Questa. My Questa measures 15x14 1/4 so I am looking for a "thick value" that measures 14 3/4 x 14.

This is one reference set of pics I have on differences but do not own these.



I have a sample of the Questa and Wasall using this reference.

Deegam notes:
Enschede =- rounded tips, almost straight corners (where horizontal meets vertical)

Walsall - flats at perf tips. quadrant corners (there is scare dagger variety)

Questa - rounded tips with more embossed look than Walsall, (my visual interpretation at pics - More "U" shaped perfs than Walsall)

My samples that I say are Walsall left. Questa right



A lot of this is agreeing on printers and then perf measurements and are there printing variations that add to confusion.
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Al
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Posted 12/23/2020   10:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@angore, the Questa stamp I posted is Deegam N2.27.2, Connoisseur SQV4. If you check your Deegam, you will see Questa deliberately changed the width of the phophor bar to 4mm for this booklet. But I agree that the 5mm bar must be Questa as well.

I have some doubts about the description of the Walsall perforation tips. If you look at the one I posted, it does not seem to be the case for the later issues. I think it only holds for N2.23.1 and N2.22.1 that Myall mentions in the footnote. The one I posted was Deegam N2.23.5, Connoisseur SWV18. Also, Enschede sheet issues have flat perforation tips (see below). The Enschede rounded tips are coil issues.

Here are two examples that can be attributed easily (I am afraid the Enschede one is a bit blurry). Both are business sheet stamps. Both have flat tips. Enschede has a sideways printing to the right for its sheet stamps. Walsall has all directions but that one.




Looking at the shallowness of the bottom perforations, I also agree that is a Walsall stamp.
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Posted 12/24/2020   07:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for images. The dip shape between the tips seems more an indicator of printer. Questa is easy.


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Al
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Posted 02/02/2021   4:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did a cross reference between Scott and SG Concise so I could purchase some issues from US collectors that use Scott using a certain web site. Scott list several varieties related to value table (thick/thin values, position) that SG Concise ignores. Scott ignores all tagging and gum types.

With the above, I had ventured over to APS stampstore thinking I could find a bargain or two but seems the prices were high and most seemed to be from one seller. I figured they were basing them off Scott pricing and then discovered Scott cat pricing is higher than SG Concise using current exchange rates.

Oh well.. Enjoying the journey.


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Al
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Posted 02/03/2021   1:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are quite a few issues where the head shading (darker vs lighter) varies with a color. Does Deegam note this difference?

They both look Head A to me.

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Al
Edited by angore - 02/03/2021 1:52 pm
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Posted 02/03/2021   2:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 2005 edition notes "shades" for the one entry with head type A1. Somewhere in the catalogue, Douglas Myall explains why he does not list shades. Connoisseur, however does list shades: slate blue, deep blue and dark Prussian blue for the A1-head. The B2-head comes in slate blue, dark blue and deep blue.

From Connoisseur:
The shading tends to merge into the background, so that until the two types are familiar
check the lower outline as follows: obscure the portrait itself behind a straight-edge
placed to join the left and right hand tips of the drapery. The flat or curving base then
becomes clearer. The two 8d values can also be used as reference copies, vermilion Type
A1 and turquoise Type B1.
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Posted 02/04/2021   05:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NSK

Thanks. I see Deegam mentioning shades for this issue but I thought this was related to overall stamp and not the shade of the head. These can be obvious side by side similar to how EME heads were usually lighter than background.

Your second comments sounds like how one checks whether it is head A vs head B. I have used this method. Are you stating these are not head A types?

I see these as PD 6.1 because none have a b setting (5 shifted down) all of the 6.2 are b types.

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Al
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Posted 02/04/2021   06:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot say from the pictures which head types these are. I agree that PD6.2 only comes in the b-setting of the value.
There is a slight difference in the coating for the head type A. This is "bluish coating," whereas head type B exists with "original" and "bluish" coating. But with used and soaked stamps that may not be an option.

The shade, indeed, refers to the whole stamp.
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Posted 02/04/2021   08:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a better image. The bottom stamp has more light shading when viewed up close below the head but did not seem to give the effect of the Head B. I focus on the shading below the right most major fold in the drapery as key clue. If the overall bottom intersects the fold then should be Head A,

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Edited by angore - 02/04/2021 08:33 am
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Posted 02/04/2021   1:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am prone to agree with you both are type A1 heads.
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Posted 02/13/2021   07:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
deleted post
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Al
Edited by angore - 02/13/2021 07:41 am
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Posted 03/01/2021   07:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is interesting that Deegam relegates perforation to a lower tier catalog number - more a foot note. In most every standard catalog, perforation is usually one of the key characteristic that defines a catalog number. Deegam considers paper/gum chemistry and phosphor screen specs (if applicable) as defining characteristics over perforation.

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Al
Edited by angore - 03/01/2021 09:25 am
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Posted 03/01/2021   08:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It can be a bit frustrating using Deegam for used Machins. Rarely can I identify a used Machin down to level 3. So, for me, I use Scott for used Machins if I can't get a level 3 determination. And Scott is not the best choice either, but that's what I have.

Robert
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Edited by Trainwreck - 03/01/2021 08:34 am
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Posted 03/01/2021   08:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would expect you run into difficulty identifying used Machins at level 2 in quite a few early decinmal and many pre-decimal cases. With the change from GA to PVAl and then DEX, with GA thrown in for some stamps it may be a challenge to determine the gum.

An example that comes to mind is SG385 (14 3/4 x 14) vs. 385a (14). The different gauge used by Somerset House on the 6d Mackennal for a period in 1920 and 1921 also has a minor number.

Most of the level two differences were instigated by Royal Mail and fully intentional. I have my doubts about the phosphor screen. The change in perforation either coincided with another change in specifications or it was due to the printer installing a rotary perforator with a different gauge, sometimes by error and once because of fire at the printing plant.

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Posted 03/01/2021   09:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I totally ignore gum. Now, if I have some mint stamps and knowing the gum will help determine other aspects (like printer, etc.) then I may consider trying to understand it but that has not been needed so far.

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Al
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