Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Let's Talk About Machins

Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 584 / Views: 64,229Next Topic
Page: of 39
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 05/05/2022   01:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The crimson for the 1p has now been replaced by this blue colour. It was one of the original colours used after decimalisation. Officially, it was changed 30 years ago, but the change, mostly, was in the official name.

They now sell the stamps as base values (those up to GBP 1), high values (GBP 2, 3, and 5), and tariff values. The latter retain solid colours. The basic stamps and high values have 'inverted' designs.

Most tariff values are higher than the GBP 2 and 3 'high values.'
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
837 Posts
Posted 05/07/2022   04:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ringo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I noticed the 1p change too. It was red right back to the Penny Red, then changed to blue for a while (the 1953 Wildings), but found its way back to red(-ish) again with the decimal Machins 51 years ago. Red seemed to be its default colour - not sure why its been abandoned.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 05/07/2022   05:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Machins have gone through more than more color palette change over time. I wonder if some of it was not to be confused with "1" and "2" NVI.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 05/07/2022   06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The change in 1951 was due to UPU regulations on the colour for postage stamps used on international mail. The reddish colour was required for another stamp. That required a change in the colour used for the 1d.

I have not found any information on the reason for the change in colours. The colour for the 1p, also, is that for the 2.55.
Maybe the crimson was unsuitable for the reversed printing.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by NSK - 05/07/2022 06:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 05/07/2022   06:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They changed the 2nd NVI from bright blue to emerald. This was close to the 2p (myrtle green) and 20p (light green) stamp colour.
The 2nd Large is now grey-green.

The 1st NVI changed from Royal Mail Red (2) to deep violet. The crimson does not come close to that colour.
Also, the sapphire blue of the 1p is the same colour as the 2.55 tariff stamp. And there are other colours used for more than one stamp.
The 1 and 1.85 are wood brown.
The 3 and 3.25 are purple.


The 1st Large is now greenish blue.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1438 Posts
Posted 09/11/2022   10:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The last Machins?
Issued Sept. 1, from the Transformers Prestige Stamp Booklet.

Robert
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 09/11/2022   10:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do expect that an issue showing King Charles III has been in preparation. I doubt they have been printed yet. I also expect they would be subject to approval by the new king. So, if any tariff increase is due in the next few months, or further prestige stamp books will be issued before spring, Those will have been prepared and any further prestige stamp book to be issued this year, likely, has been printed already. There, likely, will be new Machins.

I, also, would not rule out Royal Mail will use the Machin stamp for a remembrance issue.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 11/05/2022   06:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
With the 1991 Harrison printers of the 1p crimson, Royal Mail essentially changed the color. This was the last 1p printings by Harrison. Deegam notes the new color as dark maroon and the color difference is obvious and assigns a unique number DG 10.19. However, the crimson and dark maroon (SG continues as crimson) varied during production.

I am trying to understand if there is a way to determine this printing without just relying on color. It cannot find a unique aspect (like ACP, value type, print direction, etc) that uniquely can state this is from the two sources in 1991.




Top row - PCP - old ink
Middle group - ACP - possible either
Bottom group - elliptical in new formula

The second right stamp is somewhat close to the known dark maroon.

Images from Deegam used under Fair Use copyright.



This thread is under World Classic Stamps Mint and Used rather than Modern.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Edited by angore - 11/05/2022 06:47 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
2118 Posts
Posted 11/05/2022   07:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Al,

except for the issue (DG 10.19) you show a listing for, the stamps were printed on non-fluorescent paper and have yellow or blue phosphor bars not used before. So, this should be the only one that causes a problem. The earlier issue was DG 10.13.

DG 10.19.2 is unique as it has sideways right printing and is the only ACP booklet stamp. The non-sheet stamps listed on 10.13 are coil stamps with sideways left printing that have cut perforations on opposite sides. Booklet stamps never have that. So, you can use the TCTC-system and DOP to distinguish these.

The original sheet stamps listed under 10.13.1 have the type 1 head.

So, the confusion should be limited to 10.13.7 and 10.19.1. Since both these sheet stamps were printed from cylinder 17 on the same paper and in the same upright direction, the colour will be the only distinction.

Royal Mail never considered the Jeffery Matthews 'Dark maroon' a change from the 'Crimson.' The difference, purely, is the ink mix.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 11/05/2022   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Royal Mail said that but in reality it was a meaningful difference.

First and second rows did not have bars. The bottom row are both 2B-Y. My interest was the color for reference since they were in new formula,

My concern was that some of the pre-ink formulation changes may resemble the new formulation due to print variation. I say the new formulation is a little more blue and darker but never been good a colors. Used 1p stamps tend to get lighter NOT darker.

I need to obtain a reference copy and will include a space on my custom pages.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Edited by angore - 11/05/2022 07:53 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 11/06/2022   06:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is one nice feature of PDFs - you can add comments. I use Acrobat reader or other reader like Foxit to add catalog numbers to PDF albums pages. But, I also use this to mark up other PDFs to record information to supplement my work. I have been working off and on on custom Machin pages. If one says SG is not detailed enough the next question is where do you stop? I used Adminware's Intermediate pages as a starting list and expand. Deegam number is far more specialized and do not agree with the numbering without tweaking. The specialist pages are far too complex for me but also has information on printers, screens. sources, etc.

I keep notes on the PDF pages for Deegam value types, SG numbers, printers, etc. I locked myself to 2019 version since all subsequent Adminware pages are just adding security issues - not many corrections I reported for earlier issues.

Of course, this is all for personal use and not shared with anyone.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Edited by angore - 11/06/2022 07:07 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
514 Posts
Posted 11/06/2022   10:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DavidR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi angore, great pages with superb detail. One slight quibble, on the 4p page shouldn't the number under the first Waddington litho be X996?
Regards
DavidR
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3568 Posts
Posted 11/07/2022   06:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I did not create the pages but I did add some of notations and use it like a reference.

You are correct. X862 is the gravure version.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Valued Member
United States
43 Posts
Posted 11/07/2022   5:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mainer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great to see your collection angore - and it's fascinating to learn about all these details - a little intimidating, maybe. Eventually I'm going to dig out the pile of Machins I have and start to figure some of this out.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 39 Previous TopicReplies: 584 / Views: 64,229Next Topic  
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2022 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2022 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.28 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05