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Difference Between "Intaglio" & "Photogravure" Printings

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United States
131 Posts
Posted 02/01/2017   2:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chaulkdust to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was referred to this thread regarding a new thread I just posted. Rather than re-post please take a look. I'm now really confused after reading this thread.
Austria Scott 481 or 499 (screen or no screen)
http://goscf.com/t/52843#459596

Thanks for any replies.
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Netherlands
963 Posts
Posted 03/22/2018   04:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Glenn,

could not find your thread!

Rein
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Posted 03/23/2018   04:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rein, Sorry, but the thread removal is the fault of Stamp Magazine. GLENN
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Netherlands
963 Posts
Posted 01/15/2020   04:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As to the 1917 onwards Mexican stamps in unscreened photogravure, it is now clear they have been printed on Waite&Saville die stamp presses reel-fed [!]! I will get to this subject later on.....

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Netherlands
963 Posts
Posted 01/15/2020   04:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
More bout the Mexican stamps!

http://goscf.com/t/37209
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Australia
37418 Posts
Posted 04/07/2020   04:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Monograph
Maasi Mara University
Broad Overview of printing for those of interest.

SCHOOL OF SCIENCE AND INFORMATION SCIENCE
TOPIC: TYPES OF ANALOG PRINTING METHODS AND TECHNIQUES
(Academia)
https://www.academia.edu/18418551/A...TING_METHODS
Including
CHROMOXYLOGRAPHY
GLYPHOGRAPHY

In MSWord I had to convert to PDF
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Edited by rod222 - 04/07/2020 04:20 am
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Posted 11/10/2022   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a great thread, however, most of the links / images posted to it have disappeared. I am writing to ask that the original authors attempt to re-add their images if possible.

What I'm ultimately trying to find out is a side-by-side comparison of stamps printed with lithography and gravure. I'm getting stuck trying to determine the difference between two same value, same color stamps differentiated by how they were printed. This comes up with Machins and is driving me bonkers.
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Posted 11/10/2022   4:40 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BobinRye,
The vast majority of missing images in this thread came from Galeoptix and his website. Unfortunately, Galeoptix has passed and his website has gone dark. (The images were not archived.) This is why we encourage folks to upload images to the SCF instead of linking to other sites.

Perhaps one of the other SCF members downloaded and saved Galeoptix's images?
Don
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Posted 11/10/2022   5:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All the above pictures are reachable, just not rendered in the forum. If you right click and open in new tab you can see them.
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Posted 11/10/2022   5:24 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ah, I see the issue. Galeoptix's original forum is still online but is marked as 'not secure' and therefore the image links in his posts do not work. If I find the time, I will download them all to my PC and then upload them back into his original posts.
Don
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Australia
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Posted 11/10/2022   5:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I'm ultimately trying to find out is a side-by-side comparison of stamps printed with lithography and gravure. I'm getting stuck trying to determine the difference between two same value, same color stamps differentiated by how they were printed. This comes up with Machins and is driving me bonkers.


Not a Machin specialist.
Is it not an easy ID ? I have always thought the Photogravure stamps, can be identified by the "pitted" lines of the image (esp the value tablet) under a loupe.

This does not happen with Lithography, the edges of the vale tablets are clear and straight.

I'll dig out an image if I can, once mastered it is quite easy, but you'll need a good loupe, magnifying glass

I can print out the Photogravure process, for you, but it would likely confuse, rather than enlighten.

Tip: Get your loupe, and focus on the value figure, look at the edges
of the value. a pitted or irregular edge will be photogravure.

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Edited by rod222 - 11/10/2022 5:43 pm
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Posted 11/10/2022   5:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Rod. Clearly visible at the frame of the image. As you suggest, the frame is "pitted" (I'd say speckled, but the same thing) for gravure. For litho, it's very smooth / straight. That solves a big question for me. I've spent days sorting through my SG album to try to figure out which stamp is which!
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
37418 Posts
Posted 11/10/2022   6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great !


Quote:
I've spent days sorting through my SG album to try to figure out which stamp is which!


Knowledge is never just blessed on anyone, without prior work.

I spent some time scratching my head over these in the past also
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Netherlands
2363 Posts
Posted 11/11/2022   01:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Correct:


Quote:
Is it not an easy ID ? I have always thought the Photogravure stamps, can be identified by the "pitted" lines of the image (esp the value tablet) under a loupe.


The picture of the screened border shows something that occurs with photogravure printing, but is not something you find on all stamps.

Photogravure is made up from little puts that hold the ink. This gives a dotted image. As the Machins are printed on rotary presses, the ink flows against the movement of the paper through the press. So, if the image is printed from the bottom to the top (Direction Of Printing - DOP - is upright ), you will see the dots of ink take on the shape of a droplet that point upwards.

Often, you can see the droplets anywhere in the printed area. The portrait tends to be a good part of the image where you can see the droplets. Where the printed area meets an unprinted area, along the edge of the image, you can see it best. Also, that is the area where it is easiest to see the direction of the droplets. It gives a jagged edge.

Here is a very clear example and a discussion on the DOP:

http://goscf.com/t/79543

Lithography is etched in another way and has sharp borders. Lithography stamps were not made up from dots and you won't see the sawtooth edge. New techniques do result in a 'dotted' appearance of litho-printed stamps.

There are caveats:
Bad litho printing can lead to fuzzy edges and excess ink can fill up the border of a gravure stamp.
Later gravure printings (photogravure was replaced by computer-aided engraving) are of better quality and have a higher 'screen.' At the same time, litho printings have been made with stochastic screens. Galeoptix has posted about this.
It does not always work:
here is an example of a Dutch stamp printed in photogravure by Enschedé that has a sharp outline. This was done on purpose.

http://goscf.com/t/80894#747172

And here is a thread showing the stochastic screen of a litho printing (Hong Kong Machin):

http://goscf.com/t/76488
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Posted 11/11/2022   1:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BobInRye to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NSK - thanks for your excellent images. Luckily for me, I'm focused on Machins from the 1990s.
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