The Case Against The Big Blue Scott Internationals

JKBlue I picked up a Minkus Global Supreme at a show last month and it was loaded with mounts..i don't have my dads micrometer but the spaces (to me) do look a bit tighter in the Minkus than the Scott International !

Thanks for your kind remarks and comments JkjBlue.

Regarding "impossible" stamps and your mention of all the empty spaces for the Z-grill stamps in the Steiner pages, I'm fortunate in having an 1891 Scott International album (without stamps) which amplifies the situation somewhat. This album was published at a time when it seems that there just weren't enough stamps for collectors, and so this slim volume included spaces for not only every major variety of postage stamp known to that time, but also for all of the world's envelope stamps ("cut squares") and wrappers. For US stamps, spaces were provided for all revenue and postmaster provisional stamps, 13 pages of local stamps, plus pages for telegraph stamps, etc. The measured thickness of all these double-side pages together is only about 15 mm. The US section begins with the postmaster provisionals, with seven spaces at the bottom of page one for each of the varieties of the Saint Louis "bears", spaces I'm not likely to require anytime soon! The 1847 regular issues in fact don't start until later on page two.

This situation soon changed, and the decade of the 1890s was a transformative one for stamp collecting, with the introduction of commemorative stamps including the US Columbian and Canadian Jubilee issues, and yearly sets of Seebeck stamps for Honduras, Nicaragua and El Salvador, each of which were lengthy series to high values. This virtual "flood" of new issues seemed deliberately designed to exploit the general stamp collector.

By the time of my 1901 edition, the Scott International album had dropped all WW coverage of envelope stamps while swelling to a much more substantial volume, with the measured thickness of its pages roughly doubling to about 30 mm. During the next 110 years or so, well, you know the story…

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

P.S. A quick measurement of the width of album spaces for the US Columbians showed 41 mm for Scott, 40.5 mm for Minkus, with vertical spacing (top of space to top of space in lower row) of 31 mm for Scott and 30 mm for Minkus, not a large difference, so with some care mounts would probably work in Minkus, I suppose.

Wow, I can't believe a topic devoted to worldwide collecting is "on fire."

I also want to recommend James Mackay's The World of Classic Stamps 1840-1870. Some of the information may be out of date, but it has enlargements of many stamps which show off their designs in ways that make you appreciate them all the more. At the time I bought mine, there were several ex-library copies on Abe Books for under $10. (Unfortunately, only one today and it is $28.)

On the subject of whether spaces for rarities are a turn off, I rather like having them included as presented in the Brown Internationals where there are enough spaces on most pages not to make their lack too noticeable. They serve to remind me of an exciting aspect of stamp collecting--a Post Office Mauritius just might show up in that next International Junior I buy on eBay. And they are fun to show to non-collectors: "Care to guess how many millions it would cost to fill the first page of British Guiana?"

As Lawrence Block wrote in one of his novels: "When you collected the whole world, your albums held spaces for many more stamps than you would ever be able to acquire...You tried to fill all the spaces, of course--that was the point--but it was the trying that brought you pleasure, not the accomplishment."

This thread is making me revisit the Minkus Supreme Global (MSG) album. The Amos site shows newly reprinted version for 1840-1952 in two parts:

MINKUS: WORLDWIDE GLOBAL PART 1A- US-ITALIAN SOMALILAND 1840-1952 (517 2-SIDED SHEETS)
Minkus Worldwide Album Pages: Supreme Global Part 1A - US to Italian Somaliland 1840-1952 (517 double-sided sheets). The Supreme Global Binder is available separately.
Item: MGLV1A
Retail Price: $224.99
AA Price: $199.99

MINKUS: WORLDWIDE GLOBAL PART 1B- ITALY-ZANZIBAR 1840-1952 (551 2-SIDED SHEETS)
Minkus Worldwide Album Pages: Supreme Global Part 1B - Italy to Zanzibar 1840-1952 (551 double-sided sheets). The Supreme Global Binder is available separately. -
Item: MGLV1B
Retail Price: $224.99
AA Price: $199.99

I've talked to them and they say it's printed on (thick) 80 lb offset paper (I'm guessing white), which sounds good to me. I believe that my Scott BB is on approximately 90 lb light cream colored paper.

Has any one reading this forum actually see these new pages? If so please post…

I've been re-visiting a comparison between BB and MSG:

Pros and Cons for each, briefly

Scott's BB has a more expansive layout of spaces for stamps (looks very nice), but less coverage, especially for more expensive stamps, and spaces for water mark and perf varieties are only rarely included. BB follows the Scott stamp catalog listing order, with regular issue and commemoratives first, followed by semi-postals, airmails, etc. in date order.

The MSG has a more compact layout (more stamps per page, slightly less space between stamps) but still looks nice. There is better coverage, and spaces for water mark and perf varieties are often included. Unlike Scott, MSG generally combines the different types together, so regular issues, semi-postal, airmails, etc. will appear on the same pages, generally in date order (the Minkus catalog itself is long extinct). I say generally in date order, but especially for later stamps (early 20th century) the ranges of dates listed with the stamps can be fairly wide, and the dates mixed across several pages, presumably due to layout preferences by George Tlamsa, the designer of the album.

Among the biggest differences I've noted are in Australia and Great Britain. For example, for the Australian roos BB provides only 12 spaces up to the 2/ value for 1913-1925 issues, MSG a total of 37 spaces for roos with 5 different watermark varieties up to 2 pounds for the later 1931-36 issues. In Great Britain, on the first line BB provides only two spaces for the 1840-41 penny and two pence stamps (your choice), whereas MSG has spaces for all four 1840-41 stamps, plus the three 1847-54 embossed issues, all on the first line. BB has two spaces for the GV Downey heads, MSG provides eight for the 3 different watermark types and re-engraved heads. For seahorses, BB provides only one space, MSG nine spaces up to the 10/ values for each of three types. It should be pointed out that these are extreme examples, and the differences between BB and MSG are generally smaller, mostly on whether the higher values are included in sets, e.g. the 5/ Sydney Bridge.

It should be emphasized that for 1840-1940 BB provides for a good representative collection while omitting many more expensive stamps, and most watermark and perf varieties. This can be a good feature for a general WW collector. MSG provides more complete coverage, although it also has tradeoffs.

A few caveats, my used MSG appears to be somewhat corrupted, likely with some pages from other Minkus WW albums (which can't be easily distinguished). The newly available version 1840-1952 is apparently on thick paper (unlike mine) and reprints the full MSG, not the Minkus Global album which is NOT especially comprehensive (I have not actually seen the new MSG myself, anyone out there who has, please post).

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

InforaPenny,
I recently purchased the Minkus Supreme Global 1840-1952 album from Amos Publishing. The paper is, indeed, on heavy stock unlike what was available several years ago from Minkus. Although the album is sold in two parts, it is best to buy three binders instead of two. Because the pages are printed on both sides it is recommended to insert glassine inter leavings between pages. This, of course, adds to the bulk of the album which already is quite cumbersome. Hence, the recommendation to divide into three parts -- much more manageable physically! The pages are white, not cream colored as in the Scott International. I also would double check with Amos regarding which version they are now selling. As you indicated, Minkus Global albums came in two versions: Master Global and Supreme Global. The latter is much more comprehensive than the former. I was able to get the Supreme Global version a few months ago. Also, I found that the 1952 ending date varies from country to country. In some cases the issues stop before 1952 and in others they go beyond. I very much enjoy using this album.
D. Buss

dbuss,

Thanks for your response, detailed information and good suggestions about configuring the new version of the Minkus Supreme Global (MSG) album. I'm very pleased that you like it and I'm sure your comments will be of great interest to others reading this forum. Regarding glassines, I've recently switched from traditional glassines to the newer transparent interleaving in both my Scott BB and MSG, and am very happy with it. It's nearly invisible and provides a clear view of the stamps mounted on both pages of an album with double sided leaves.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

InforaPenny and dbuss and philb and 1840-1940

Thanks for all the great information on the Minkus Global Supreme.


I must say I rejected the album earlier as it appeared to me the spaces were too tight for mounting. ( I've given up on today's concrete hinges. )

But the truth is I have never personally examined in detail the MGS.

Although I an "happy" with the Steiner, and "happy" with BB, it is also true that sometimes the album one doesn't have suddenly appears more appealing.

To that end-and to torture myself about decision making a little more- a comparison between Big Blue and MGS for a couple more countries would be quite helpful.

The checklist for BB is already available on my blog for the countries Aden- Great Britain.

It would be nice (I'm begging here ) if someone involved with this discussion review their MGS for a couple of countries between Aden-Great Britain (Say a South American and a British Colony),for the years 1840-1940+ and report the checklist findings so an objective comparison can be made.

We would then have trend data for three albums....

-Steiner (Essentially all the major Scott numbers have spaces.)

-Minkus Global Supreme (Do they provide a not too hot/not too cold compromise between BB and Steiner?))

-Big Blue (35,000 spaces, generally inexpensive, but somewhat arbitrary coverage for countries.)

Anyway, if anybody would like to provide checklist data for MCG to compare to BB, I would find that VERY interesting.

Jkjblue,

I feel your ambivalence…

However, the more I think about it, the more I think you're probably already on pretty solid ground. From my perspective, a key difference between BB and MSG is the number of rows of stamp spaces per page. A quick spot check for BB showed that most pages have 6 rows of stamps (occasionally 5 or 7) with extra space sometimes left at the sides. My MSG shows more variability, but typically has 7 and often 8 rows per page depending on the size of the stamps (occasionally 5 or 6, and I've even seen one extreme case with 9 rows). While the layout of spaces in both albums is very nice, MSG's pages are clearly more crowded. This is not a problem if you use hinges (as I mainly do in my MSG side-collection) but could be if you plan to use a lot of mounts.

This is one of the key reasons, in spite of occasional misgivings, that I plan to stick with BB for my primary WW collection (I like mint stamps and just can't bring myself to hinge mint George V jubilee stamps, among others). The other is BB's feature (weakness for some) of both omitting many of the more expensive stamps, and ignoring watermark and perf varieties to focus on "face different" stamps. Since for my "early favorites" I insert pages anyway, to expand space for cancellation varieties, blocks and pairs, etc., having better coverage for early "singles" in the album doesn't really help me that much. None-the-less, I do find much to admire about the MSG album.

Unfortunately, my used MSG album seems to have been corrupted with substitution of at least some pages from the Minkus Master Global or other albums. For example, there are multiple copies of index pages for both MSG and the Master Global album at the beginning, and in going through the album in some instances I found duplicated coverage at differing levels of detail for some countries. While the European nations seem fine, there seem to be sporadic problems in a number of the others. Consequently, I'm afraid I can't provide reliable data for specific comparisons of MSG with BB and Steiner's pages. Hopefully, dbuss with his new MSG pages can provide some spot-checking to address this need.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

Yes, a sticking point for me also.

And I have been trained to like my "Back-of-the-Book" located at the end of the country section.

Still, it would be interesting to have a few more objective comparisons between BB and MSG.

Most of my collecting life my budget has been pretty flat...then the kids were educated and moved out...i wish I could have started with individual country Scott specialized albums..but I could only afford second or third hand Blue Internationals one at a time...the Minkus albums were just not compatible with the scott catalogs...we do the best we can....

I know there have been threads on several of the major philatelic boards about Scott, Minkus, et al conversion, some of which mention a perhaps apocryphal website that no one seems to want to reveal. Out of curiosity I did a search on the APRL library website and found concordances between Scott and Minkus for Mexico, Great Britain, Burma, Australia, Israel, and the US. Several of these are found in the Krause-Minkus Standard Catalogs.

The most interesting citation, unfortunately not owned by any library I have access to, is the Grafo-Art Concordance of Minkus & Scott Catalog Numbers published in 1971. It is in the Rocky Mountain Philatelic Library and Collectors Club of New York. I can't find a citation that indicates the number of pages so I don't know how thorough the work was. Is anyone familiar with this concordance?

I've heard back from the Rocky Mountain Philatelic Library and apparently the 70 page Grafo-Art Concordance of Minkus & Scott Catalog numbers that I mentioned in a previous post covers the world. I'm joining the RMPL so I can borrow the book and do some comparisons between the Minkus Supreme Global album and the Scott Blue Volume 1.

UPDATE------A few months ago ,maybe a year ago there was a discussion on filling up the big blues classics. One of the most difficult stamps to get was a few stamps from a Cape Juby set . I posted that the set was sold at a H.R.Harmers auction in a country collection a few years earlier . Since that discussion and never seeing that set sold again .Last week at CHICAGOPEX , that set has shown up again during the Regency-Superior Stamp Auction in a lot .They were in lot 2727 which was listed as '1928-34 Valuable Old-tyme Scott Int'l Brown Album 20 th Century, Part 3 ."The estimate was $7,000 -$9,000 with a catalog value of better than $36,000 but it sold at auction for $4,500.00.At this auction was three lots that any collector of Pre-1940 worldwide would of liked to get and would of filled hundreds or thousands of empty spaces .

The problem- and I'm sure I'm not the only one- is I can't afford to drop several thousand at one time on a purchase.

And if it's not so much about the money, it's about what the spouse (in my case misses) would do after seeing the bill ;)