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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 6,478Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4605 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   2:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Bujutsu to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi All

I have scanned an image of a French naval cruiser used to the end of WW I but I cannot identify the ship.

Does any member have an idea what the name of this ship was? I would like to know so that I can properly place it in my album.

Thanks a lot

Chimo

Bujutsu



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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   2:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is probably it (as referred to on the bottom of the card):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ip_Dunkerque
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United States
630 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   3:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add yakboomer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In this case the ship shown on the postcard is clearly pre-dreadnaught era (prior to 1906). The French Battle cruiser Dunkerque was commissioned in 1937. The cruiser in the postcard has a single gun forward turret putting her possibly in the Glorie class. Beyond that I would have to find my Jane's Fighting ships of WWI and I haven't seen it in a few years. Nice postcard!
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7630 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   3:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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United States
1377 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw my WWI Jane's just yesterday. If somebody doesn't beat me to it, I should be able to post something later tonight.

Robert
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United States
5880 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   7:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am guessing, but it most resembles the Justice, of the Liberté class turret ships.
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APS Member #: 222539 AAPE, Maplewood Stamp Club (MN), Northern Philatelic Society, US Philatelic Classics Society, Auxiliary Markings Club, Canal Zone Study Group, Minnesota Postal History Society
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1377 Posts
Posted 06/17/2013   8:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another view of the vessel in question.



I searched a few references I have and surmise the vessel is a gunboat. The size of the vessel, the one funnel and that spindly mast are giveaways that it is not a major warship like a battleship or cruiser. Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I has silhouettes of two possible candidates, River Gunboats Nos. 1, 2; or River Gunboats Nos. 3, 4. The funnel on the vessel depicted on the card is most like Gunboat Nos. 1, 2. Jane's has no other information on these vessels. The resolution on the page scan is not very good.



An internet search for information on 19th century French river gunboats didn't produce any results, other than some hits on Yangtze river gunboats, which this vessel is not.

In any case, that's a really nice card.

Robert
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Edited by Trainwreck - 06/17/2013 8:27 pm
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Posted 06/18/2013   01:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add yakboomer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice work, trainwreck!
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4605 Posts
Posted 06/18/2013   2:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all for your help.

I thought the "Dunkerque" referred to here was the location, not the ship. It also appears that the publisher of the card was located there as well. This card is also dated 1918 and any information I have seen on the internet has a more modern ship that was commissioned in 1932.

I guess I will have to keep digging.

This is great help from all of you and thanks again.

Chimo

Bujutsu
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
845 Posts
Posted 06/18/2013   6:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HungaryForStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is probably the Acheron Class armored gunboat named Cocyte commissioned in 1890 and stricken in 1911. It looks similar to the Phelgeton as seen on this page: http://www.worldnavalships.com/coas...ce_ships.htm

You can see another postcard of this boat here and it has the name "Le Cocyte and appears to be the same vessel:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUNKERQUE-O...em460f071f3b

By the way, here is a list of French gunboats:
http://oceania.pbworks.com/w/page/8...h%20gunboats
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
845 Posts
Posted 06/18/2013   6:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HungaryForStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I meant to say "Phlegeton" in the previous post, not "Phelgeton".

"Fletcher, Felcher, whatever"
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4605 Posts
Posted 06/18/2013   8:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
lol Hungary - aw geez!

Thanks for the sites. They are quite interesting too. Foreign naval ships are to my area of expertise but when some come across my path, I tend to keep them.

All part of the turf of collecting I guess and that includes the research with some steps forward and sometimes no steps at all <G>

Thanks a lot

Chimo

Bujutsu
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United States
5846 Posts
Posted 06/18/2013   9:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is what Modern Ships of War (Reed and Simpson, 1888) had to say about Cocyte:


Quote:
The Cocyte and Mitraille belong to a new class, or rather they represent a type which, after disappearing for a season of doubt and denial, has had its value so much recognized that three Continental nations are giving it earnest study. A late French Minister of Marine asked within a year for money to construct fifty of these gun-boats, but was then refused the grant, a decision for which Admiral Sir George Elliot thinks England ought to be very grateful. This distinguished officer believes in the value of the type, and hopes that the Admiralty "will take note of the threat thus made" before the theory is allowed to prevail that adequate security can be given to the British coasts by sea-going cruisers, submarine mines, shore batteries, and torpedo-boats. The boats present a small target, and give good armor protection to guns which, when the vessels are inshore or reinforced by land batteries, have sufficient power to keep battle-ships at a distance. They are very handy, have good speed, and are economical, because for the same money they can, as flotillas, bring into the action four times the gun power possible in the large battle-ships. In France this type is divided into two classes—the Acheron, Cocyte, Phlegeton, and Styx, of 1639 tons, belonging to the first, and the Fusee, Grenade, Mitraille, and Flamme, of 1045 tons, to the second. The iron and steel hulls are extensively subdivided into water-tight compartments, and are protected by complete belts of steel armor at the water-line, and by arched steel-armored decks. The superstructures above the protective decks have water-line belts of cellulose. The armament consists of one heavy gun mounted in a barbette tower, and of a strong secondary battery of machine guns and torpedoes.
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Canada
4605 Posts
Posted 06/19/2013   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for this Cjd

Very useful information.

Chimo

Bujutsu
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5846 Posts
Posted 06/19/2013   1:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if the barbette gun could be fired fully broadside on a boat this small. I'm guessing yes, with only one gun, but I wonder...

Interesting stuff from one little postcard.
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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 06/19/2013   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like the old Mansard roofed house in the background too! Nice old card.
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