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Belgium Scott #39-What Do You Think?

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Valued Member
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Posted 11/26/2013   11:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Kenneth Weiss to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have a Belgium #39 which is a key stamp, but I'm not thrilled with the back of the stamp-it has hinge remnant on it, and I am reluctant to remove it. Please let me know what you think, and if I should do anything with it-see pictures.. Thanks..Ken



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Posted 11/26/2013   12:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To the best of my knowledge, there is not a lot you can do with some of those old hinges. Once they are on, it is 'very difficult' to remove them. Being a key stamp, I would be inclined to grin and bear it for fear of damaging it and wait until you possibly come across another example.

Just a suggestion of course.

Chimo

Bujutsu
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Posted 11/26/2013   12:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kenneth Weiss to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's what I was thinking. It's really nice on the front and very expensive to replace. I agree with you...Ken
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Posted 11/26/2013   12:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Be careful, #39 has been extensively forged with something like 16 different types.
I'd suggest obtaining "Elements d'expertise des 5 F belge de 1878 et congolais de 1886" by Roger Vervisch.
It is written in French but is heavily illustrated and easy to understand.
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Posted 11/26/2013   12:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kenneth Weiss to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you - I just got the stamp from Apfelbaum in an auction, so I guess if it is forged I can get my money back..Ken
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Posted 11/26/2013   11:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The number of forged stamps I received from Apfelbaum and returned was astounding. Was it an auction or "buy it now"? After submitting dozens of stamps to the China society for authenticity and all coming back forged I was banned from purchasing from them. Thankfully the society did not charge for the forgeries. They only charge if authentic. I have since been reinstated but have not purchased from them again. I can also give you the name (privately) of a recognized dealer that also was banned after returning forged stamps from Apfelbaum. Buyer beware!
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Posted 11/30/2013   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I found this on eBay today.
I believe this to be a forgery.

I can't tell from your small picture if yours is genuine or not.
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Edited by Timm - 11/30/2013 11:55 am
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Posted 12/05/2013   12:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kenneth Weiss to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have another copy here, K

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Posted 12/05/2013   8:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like another forgery.
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Posted 01/08/2015   5:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nl1947 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just joined & saw this topic - easy
The picture from K Weiss is real or one of the finest forgeries ever. A little smal for some of the important details.

The one from Timm is the most common forgery found
The forked line above the last E is the immediate giveaway



The image below outlines the other main areas. If anyone is interested I can send or post the text
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Posted 01/08/2015   6:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, yes, we are interested.

And welcome!
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Posted 01/08/2015   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danko to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was told that this one is a forgery/counterfeit as well.

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Edited by danko - 01/08/2015 8:52 pm
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Posted 01/08/2015   11:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nl1947 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lets look at the main characteristics of the forgeries. I updated my picture to include a few unusual items.
The one shown is the most common fake on non certified auctions.

There are about 20 varieties of the forgeries with many of the list items in each case.

Interestingly a forgery was made in Germany? about 2005. The author put the word "fake" outside the bottom left frame & still managed to sell dozens on auction. He also faked a cancel (Liege) on a postcard.


First and not easy with a picture is the perforations - they should be 15X15 (more accurately 14.75 X 14.75)
Roller cancels are generally not forged as they reduce the value in half. Some letters have them.
There are some very good fake postal cancels on letters & postcards ranging from 1875-81.



Note that the list does not apply in every case for the real one based on the position on the sheet. Excess ink can also obliterate some features.

1. The bottom legs of the V should not touch one another.
2. The line should not be forked.
3. The tip of the 5 should be rounded, not pointed or curved upwards.
4. Other than 1 or 2 positions on the sheet. the frame should have a break in it at this spot. On many fakes the outside frame tends to be very imperfect.
5. The Y shaped hair should not touch the top of the head or the hair at the base.
6. The delta has many shapes on forgeries but should not resemble a letter A
Delta on real one below

7. This one if often wrong. There should be 9 hairs (top one can be very slight) and the 4th from the bottom will be noticeably shorter.
8. The hairs should not be even & should have some curves.
9. The ear is another common area. It should have a fork on the inside & specific breaks as shown.

10. There should be dots (dashes) here between the hair lines.
11. These 2 ornaments should not touch.
12. This ornament should not touch or cross the frame.
13. There should be no color or bleeding in this area (Sperati variety trait).
14. This line should have a break in it.
15. The initials AD should be visible with a dash & 2 or 3 points above it. The frame line besides it should be thick.
S . The top one is a Sperati variety (2? exist) where the tip of the hair has a noticeable curve in it. The bottom S, Sperati put a white dot here between the A & N.
F. A Fournier variety (there may be 4 or 5 of them). Some of the hairs have a definite downwards curve on them.
Finally on some bad ones the letter L in BELGIQUE is longer than the E. The number 5 has a rounded appearance instead of straight edges. The middle line of the E is very short. The Last E may have a dot above it.

There were 3 printings, Feb.78, June 78 & Aug 80 & different inks were used, so results vary.

That's most of the traits - now you are all experts on the 5Fr Albert






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Posted 01/09/2015   10:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If there was a "Like" button, I'd hit it. Thanks for the writeup.
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Posted 01/09/2015   12:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all that information nl1947. This will certainly be useful for those of us who come across any of these stamps.

Chimo

Bujutsu
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Posted 01/09/2015   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nl1947 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To Danko
If you look at the features I posted, your image has most of the "real" requirements. The roller cancel hides a few - but overall how do you rate it?
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