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Lithography, offset, offset/litho, photo/offset  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   4:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lithograving to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
As you can see from the thread title there are many types of
Lithography.

The quote below from an Wikipedia article defines the basic
principles of the original lithographic process.

"Lithography is a method of printing originally based on the principle that oil and water do not mix.
Printing is from a stone (lithographic limestone) or a metal plate with a smooth surface.
It was invented in 1796 by German author and actor Alois Senefelder as a cheap method of
publishing theatrical works"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithography

West Germany issued a stamp in 1972 for the 175th Anniversary
of Senefelder's invention which illustrates one of those
old stone presses.

Scott 1087



Fittingly the stamp was printed offset/litho by Tiefdruck
Schwann-Bagel.
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Edited by lithograving - 03/24/2018 11:25 am

Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I found it fascinating when I first read about how the
fossil remains of Archaeopteryx were discovered in the
Solnhofen,Bavaria quarry which was mined for it's smooth limestone slabs
which were necessary in the lithographic printing process.

From the Greek lithos 'stone' and graphein 'to write'


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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   5:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Therefore the original lithography would be direct printing where the inks on the limestone slab and
later metal plates directly were in contact with the paper.
I suppose to prevent constant wear and tear of plates the old method was replaced by indirect printing
via offset or web offset printing

"Offset printing or web offset printing is a commonly used printing technique in which the inked image
is transferred (or "offset") from a plate to a rubber blanket, then to the printing surface."


Quoted from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offset_printing



NOTE: If you spot any errors or omissions, let me know.
I don't even mind criticism. I can take it.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   5:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An old favourite of mine, lithographed using a limestone slab - probably German - from 1882:

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow Tony that sheet is a beauty. Thanks for showing it.
I was hoping for some early examples of stone lithography
on this thread.

I have checked in the catalogues and there aren't too many examples
of the old stone type lithography.

Most stamp printers in the 19th century and into the 20th
preferred typography as a fast and cheap method.

Tony is there any chance for a close up on one stamp to see
the texture of the solid areas?

Also I get LITHOGRAPHJHINDSTATE RAJPRESS (Government press?)
but what is SUNGROOR ?
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   7:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stone lithography never really saw widespread use in stamp printing I suppose since typography (letterpress)
was probably cheaper and more efficient.

By the 1920s most of the old lithography had been replaced by indirect web offset printing.
But as per my old Michel catalogue both Latvia and Lithuania
were still using stone lithography as late as 1937.

It is interesting to note that Scott catalog always referred to this print method as Lithography
It's just Litho. whether it applies to a 19th century direct stone print or a 2013 photo/litho print.

Michel catalogue on the other hand does differentiate between Steindruck (stone print) and Offset.
In that catalogue it is abbreviated as Stdr.



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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   10:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some examples I have which were printed by
stone lithography.

Russia 1921

Scott 181



I'm not sure if this is what is meant by pelure paper ?



Scott 182




Scott 183




The 250 and the 300 ruble appear as if printed typography
but there are no raised areas the back of the stamps which would indicate typo.

Scott 184



Scott 186


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Edited by lithograving - 03/24/2018 11:31 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
710 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   10:21 pm  Show Profile Check Philatarium's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If there were a like button for these posts, I would be liking up the whole thread!

Thank you all!

-- Dave
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States, Swiss booklets & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Pillar Of The Community
Chile
1136 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   10:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jorgesurcl to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm not sure if this is what is meant by pelure paper ?

Looks like pelure paper.
Pelure paper, also called "onion skin paper" is very thin and translucent. Sometimes has a grayish color.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 02/06/2014   10:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with Philatarium: an excellent thread, and most instructive.

Here are a couple of examples of that Anna of Jind



(Not taken from the same sheet, of course, but file copies I had handy.)

A number of the Indian States used good old stone lithography to print their stamps. Bhopal used it exclusively from its first issue in 1872 until 1902:





(These are the Anna of 1889-90, SG 33)

And the printer of Bussahir, Maulvi Karam Baksh



made a special journey from the Himalayan foothills to Bombay/Mumbai in order to study lithography, and bring it back to Bussahir.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/07/2014   5:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks jorgesurcl, so it is on pelure paper then.


The term "onion skin paper" now that you mentioned it
also rings a bell and now I see the connection.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/07/2014   5:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tony and Philatarium for your interest and kind words.

I'm hoping that more people will participate and contribute
with comments, images, questions or whatever.

But I realize this kind of stuff is not everyone's cup of tea.

Tony

Thanks for showing those "uglies", you certainly do have
a fantastic collection.

The colour and texture on the Jhind stamps to me give
off a kind of "warm" feeling. Actually it reminds me
of water colour.
I'm trying to imagine the handmade paper pressed against
the limestone slab and the ink soaking in.


On the Bhopal stamps, is the centre embossing or debossing?

Were those perfs created via sewing machine?

I seem to recall that someone (you?) once mentioned
that some local (Indian States ?) printer once used
a sewing machine to perforate the sheets.

Which reminds me perhaps some one could start a thread
here discussing the various types of perforations.




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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 02/07/2014   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithograving, the centres of the Bhopal stamps were supposed all to be embossed with the Begum's insignia before issue. The embossing changed when the old Begum died in 1901, and was succeeded by her daughter. The stamps were perforated with a harrow device - which probably does call for a thread of its own. How many collectors would know what a harrow perforator was these days? (BTW, Barwani and Bussahir used sewing machines to perforate their stamps, though neither persisted with the idea.)

Those Jind sheets do have a charm of their own:



(This one the Anna on thick blueish laid paper)

Sungroor, or these days Sangrur, was the capital of the old Jind State.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/07/2014   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the all this additional information.

You certainly don't collect "ordinary" stamps that's for sure.

Like how many people collect these ?

Are these popular with Indian collectors or are they
more into post Independence items?

Are they rare? I would think they are.

Any record of quantities printed?


Quote:
How many collectors would know what a harrow perforator was these days?


I have heard the term but know very little about it.

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/07/2014   11:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These Ukraine stamps were part of an unissued set from 1920.

Post WWI Ukraine had a short lived independence but was by this time
being split up between Soviet Russia and Poland, smaller parts
to Rumania and Czechoslovakia.

As per Michel they were printed Stdr (Steindruck), no printer
given.

I believe I read somewhere that they were printed in Vienna.
Any one have any info regarding these stamps?










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Edited by lithograving - 03/24/2018 11:37 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 02/08/2014   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
By the late fifties, early sixties many countries wanted to add some colour to their stamps.

Printers where experimenting with multicolour recess engraving as for
example the Giori process presses and multicolour photogravure
good example being by the Japan State Printer.

Some countries decided on multicolour offset.

Here are a few examples from Greece.

Notice the solid colours and shading created by dots and lines.
No mosaic screen, no cross-lined screen, no half tones.

This one of a set of 9 stamps portraying
ancient Greek coins was issued in 1963.

All Greek stamps at this time were printed by Aspioti-Elka Graphic Arts Co. Ltd, Athens

Scott 755 Michel 812





Olympic Summer Games Tokyo 1964

Scott 807 Michel 864







Scott 808 Michel 865

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Edited by lithograving - 03/24/2018 11:45 am
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