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A Find Of A Life Time...#32

 
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/19/2019   09:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Don sorry if there were misunderstandings here. I will give you another case that was not reported in my original thread.

The VG Greene Foundation announced the find on their web site and made a special page with the full report on how the stamp was proven genuine and the simple tests people could use at home to see if they might have one. Report can be found at: http://www.greenefoundation.ca/research.htm#papers. They were deluged with people wanting to know if they had one or not and as I recall they finally had to put a statement on the web page to do the rudimentary simple tests mentioned in the paper before sending a stamp in for expertization. There sure are a lot of want to be rich people out there who don't take the time to learn simple things to do and check and properly identify the stamps for themselves. Many of the people were also confusing the Small Queen two cent stamp for the Large Queen two cent stamp when all they need to do is look it up in a catalog.

I guess many people were stressed out by this find. I know I was mighty anxious about it myseslf.

Best, Mike
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Edited by watermark - 08/19/2019 09:03 am
Pillar Of The Community
Singapore
714 Posts
Posted 08/19/2019   12:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pennyblackie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/19/2019   3:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
pennyblackie, I remember that article and many more pertaining to the 2c LQ's on laid paper. I even recieved a 2c LQ on wove paper from Weeda Stamps that had a postmark on it from Hamilton about a week after the copy I had was postmarked. A lot of the early news articles had me purchasing the copy I had for $5 which was pure conjecture. A lot of articles were written about it. I have a box full of memorabilia about the three 2c LQ's on Laid paper and I do still hope another one is discovered.

Mike
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1294 Posts
Posted 08/19/2019   3:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
https://www.academia.edu/36076139/A...n_Laid_Paper

I recently expertized Canada Scott 31, the 1868 one cent Large Queen issue on laid paper, and the paper linked above describes the process and could be followed by others seeking to authenticate these stamps.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/19/2019   7:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wish the information now known had been available to me when I found the #32. I had a #31 and #33 to compare it to and was familiar with other laid papers so had a pretty good idea what I was looking at. With the research done on my #32 and other laid paper LQ's there are plenty of things to check and verify in identifying the LQ Laid papers now. Thanks for sharing your information cjpalermo1964.
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3010 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   07:57 am  Show Profile Check jogil's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Were the earlier found copies of this Canadian stamp first discovered in the U.K. and this latest one in the U.S.?
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Edited by jogil - 08/20/2019 08:01 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   08:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jogil, This was posted on page three of this thread:

Glenn Archer wrote an article in the latest copy of BNA Topics the following info is contained in that article and a Confederation News Letter BNAPS Large and Small Queens Study Group:

Philip von Ferrary (1850-1917) assembled most complete worldwide collection of his day. The first known 2c LQ on Laid paper was in his collection. The first copy is at least in Germany at the time of WWI.

The second copy apparently was found in a Persian stamp dealers stock around 1900.

The third copy found 2013 in the USA.

More info is available from Topics and Confederation newsletter.

Edited by watermark - 02/13/2014 07:23 am
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another piece of trivia about the laid paper stamps. As far back as 1993 I was saving newspaper articles about the sale of one copy dreaming of finding one one day. The Rare stamp was apparently purchased by F. E. Eaton and Sons. I have two articles clipped from newspapers reporting its sale. So I began the search for a copy very early in my collecting. I never expected to find one and had no expectations of even seeing one. With only two copies reported I knew the chances were extremely slim of ever seeing one. But we all know the rest of the story....
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Posted 08/20/2019   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mike

I know what you paid for it..Let me ask a question..Did you feel bad for the seller knowing he was unaware of what he was selling..haha

Robert
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   11:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Robert, I paid a very high price for a damaged #24 that the seller was selling. I have no qualms about paying him his asking price. If the seller had known what he actually had it would never have been offered in a circuit book. The seller bares the responsibility for identifying what he has properly if he doesn't and a more knowledgeable collector buys it the deal is closed. I have purchased many stamp varieties this same way because I recognize varieties dealers don't know about due to my knowledge. It pays to pick up some research books and learn about what you collect.

Best, Mike
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Posted 08/20/2019   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If the seller had known what he actually had it would never have been offered in a circuit book.


Mike..The truth..haha..Did you ever get up the nerve to contact the seller and tell him what an opportunity he missed..??

Robert
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3664 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   11:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"The circuit book owner is unknown" page 3 scroll down.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
590 Posts
Posted 08/20/2019   11:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add watermark to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know who the seller is/was. Case closed on this question.

Mike
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Edited by watermark - 08/20/2019 11:35 am
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Canada
83 Posts
Posted 08/27/2019   9:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Brad905 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am interested in the claims that Brigham's #32 did not sell at the Large Queen Auction of February 22, 2014. I was at the auction in person, but unfortunately had to leave before this stamp came up for auction. It was lot #663.

I did receive the "Prices Realized" for this auction, and it shows that it "realized CAD$ 475,000.00. Granted, the estimate in the auction catalogue was for $900K. I always assumed it sold.

As Jogil posted back on page 7 of this thread, it is now being offered for sale by a Brampton, Ontario dealer "Canada Stamp Finder". I am under the impression that this company is owned by Maxime Herold, who was also the Chief Administrative Officer for the Brigham Auctions. The listed price is currently CAD$369,000.00. A discount of more than $100K.

How do people here know that it was not sold? Can it be verified.

One reason I ask is that "Canada Stamp Finder" is also listing a large block of 2-Cent Large Queens (Scott #24a). The block is on Bothwell Paper and includes the entire watermark over the 18 stamps. "Canada Stamp Finder" is listing that one at CAD$159,000.00.



But this was lot # 88 at the Brigham sale. I was there at the time and I witnessed it being sold for CAD$300K. So how can it possibly be listed a mere 5 years later at almost half the cost that I saw it sell for. I was sitting and writing the prices down as the items were selling.

Can anyone explain this to me? Generally, my top dollar for a stamp is a couple of thousand dollars. I will never be in this league. But still, I would like to understand how this works?
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Edited by Brad905 - 08/27/2019 9:58 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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1634 Posts
Posted 08/28/2019   02:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The statement "sold" on the auction floor could be interpreted as being sold back to the original owner via a reserve price. Owners/consignors are allowed to bid on their own items in any case. I do not know if auction law/rules are made by the provinces in Canada, but in the US, it is by state. Some states require that "sold" means that the item actually changed hands, others do not. Prices realized and sales reports also can be utter baloney in states without the stricter interpretation of the word "sold". Realize also that any major item will have some kind of reserve price, realistic or not.

For example, the major auctions for thoroughbred horses in Kentucky (up to US$1 million and more for some horses) can have reserve prices that are not met. The auctioneer is very good at giving the impression of a non-sale looking like a sale. Sometimes nobody knows if a horse sold or not until it comes to racing up to a year or so later, if it does at all. But you also do not see direct sales after the auction where horses can be sold for less than their reported "sale" prices. So it can be with stamps.

Before anyone gets upset, if there were unique or rare items that you owned, would you want it to be sold very cheaply because there happened to be no competition at a particular place and time? Auctioneers also tend to push estimated pricing on rarities, but if you owned that rare item, wouldn't you expect them to do that? On the flip side, I remember a major sale in October 1987, deserving of a bound catalog and color pictures. The auction happened to fall 4 days after the Black Friday stock market crash with specialist major bidders not bidding because of it. The sale could not/would not be cancelled.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 08/28/2019 02:27 am
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