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Czechoslovak Stamps Printed On Diestamp Print Presses  
 

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Valued Member
France
66 Posts
Posted 12/13/2014   2:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

I agree with you for all you write.

Masters engravers can be worried for their works.

Now, the die is photographed and the computer makes the job, writes the text and the value, drives a machine to engraved the plate drum for the printing press. The computer would be able to do the job without engravers. But it is not the same result. It is not so finely engraved like before.

It seems that it is not for the cost, but for ecology, this method without transfert of the die roller allows to don't use toxic products for making the steel hard with the cyanide. But I think it is cheaper.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4109 Posts
Posted 12/13/2014   3:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,

I'm with you when it comes to fondly remembering the past and
I wonder how it would be like to live 200 years ago,
lets say in Vienna at a time when Beethoven was still alive.
Then again the average person then lived a pretty harsh life
with an average life expectancy of 40 years.
Short and sweet so they didn't have to suffer too long.

Concerning engraved stamps I totally agree with you also.
It is dying out and even though France, Italy,Spain, Sweden, Denmark
Czech Republic and Slovakia * still issue
quite a few engraved stamps, I believe it's only a question
of time before it's all printed via offset/litho.
Skimming through the 6 new Scott 2015 volumes I borrow from the
library (can't afford $120 per volume + 13% sales tax here in Ontario)
even photogravure stamp printing is just about finished.

It's a pity that countries such as Austria and Belgium edit
who both have such a tradition of printing beautiful
engraved stamps and had such master engravers, no longer
issue engraved stamps.

The majority of Austrian stamps for instance are printed offset
by foreign printers in Hungary and the Netherlands.

A few of the annual issues are still printed by the Austrian
State Printer using what they call Etch-Art which
combines offset with something like computerized engraving
where no engraver is required.
See my thread here http://goscf.com/t/28830&whichpage=1

Well I guess this is what they call progress.



* There are some countries such as
Canada, USA,Norway and China that issue maybe an engraved
stamp once in a blue Moon but very rarely.
Same for Liechtenstein, Monaco, Poland and maybe one or two
which I missed.

edit Thanks to Galeoptix/Rein I learned that Belgium
still does issue engraved stamps.




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Edited by lithograving - 12/13/2014 8:15 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
522 Posts
Posted 12/13/2014   6:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

Belgium will keep recess for stamps as long as Guillaume Broux is active... And he even got more to do in 2015.

groetjes, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4109 Posts
Posted 12/13/2014   7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rein,

Good to know that Belgium is still in the game.

When I skimmed through the Belgium pages in Scott 2015 Volume I
I don't recall seeing any engraved issues for 2013 but
then again my memory isn't what it used to be.
A fact of which I am being reminded of repeatedly by my
dear wife.
Guess I have to go back to the library to check it out again.

Got to love Scott Catalog, call it 2015 , publish the volumes throughout 2014,
and include barely up to the end of 2013 for most countries.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4109 Posts
Posted 12/17/2014   6:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After spending quite some time with the French multicolour
TD3s and TD6s I need a break.


Time to look at some Czechoslovakian multicolour engraved
stamps.

Scott catalogue shows these as having been printed
Engr. & Photo but I only see engraved colours.

Florian, is Scott wrong again ?

Czechoslovakia Scott 1779



Just look at that face. I haven't seen too many better engraved
stamps than this.






Czechoslovakia Scott 1847



What a riot of bright colours, they jump right out at you.





Czechoslovakia Scott 1848






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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
522 Posts
Posted 12/18/2014   05:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

It may have been mentioned here before but the diestamped always have a much finer perforation than the WIFAGs [circa 11 1/2].

With photogravure we see a screen usually but also quite often askew straight lines that may remind you of recess but aren't so... Than the coarse perforation brings you back to reality.

groetjes, Rein
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Valued Member
France
66 Posts
Posted 12/18/2014   08:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

These stamps are very beautiful. It is a great job.

I have seen they were printed in sheetlet of four stamps. Is it possible to know how many stamps were printed? Do you know what kind of printing machine was used?

Seeing the pic, it seems to me that they are printed with a flat plate with several engraved dies (5), one for each color, five times in the press. But I may be wrong.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
235 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   02:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is interesting to see that readers are counting the potential colours used on these stamps (be they direct or offset intaglio). Which set me wondering - why do we not see more intaglio progressives for sale, i.e. individual colours printed on their own and slowly building-up the total design, as with litho? I would have thought that printers would have required these equally as much. GLENN
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
508 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   05:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
lithograving - Thanks for your excellent blow-ups setting off the splendour of the glittering colours harmoniously combined with the fineness of the engraving, the effect which only die-stamping can produce. This method of printing postage stamps has been unique to the Postal Printing House of Securities, Prague ever since 1955, when the first National Costumes series of stamps was printed.

Originally developed to avoid the health hazards of trichloroethylene then used in printing multicoloured engraved stamps, this costly and time-consuming process has been retained and perfected by master engravers as well as master printers up to the present day, just for the sheer beauty of the resulting products, the printing house's pride, even if the print runs have dwindled from the early 300,000 - 500,000 up to about 900,000 on some occasions (done on the Waite & Saville or the Heim diestamp print presses, sometimes different values of the same issue printed simultaneously on both types of the presses, details as to which value on which press not published) to the present-day 60,000 - 100,000 - 150,000 as the production cost as well as the face values of the stamps have kept soaring, and, therefore, the process is now being used on fewer and fewer occasions.

As far as I know, you are the only collector capable of showing on the Internet these issues to maximum advantage, able to do so thanks to your early interest in and appreciation of these notable achievements. Thank you.
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Edited by florian - 12/19/2014 05:28 am
Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
508 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   06:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Galeoptix - Rein, I am afraid the subtleties of perforation are nothing to go by exactly with the above issues shown by lithograving as the 13 3/4 harrow perforation or that of gauge 14 of the diestamped issues were abandoned between 1966 and 1967 in favour of the 11 3/4 harrow perf, not significantly different from the gauges used with WIFAG issues (harrow perf 11 3/4 : 11 1/4 or 11 1/4 : 11 1/2, depending on the size of the stamp and on whether vertical or horizontal).

Greetings,

Florián
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Edited by florian - 12/20/2014 03:56 am
Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
508 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   06:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bonjour, Papy24 - Thanks for your appreciation taken as a printer's opinion. The information you asked for is included in my post addressed to lithograving.

Yes, you are right: 5 dies, one for each colour, five times in the press.

I will gladly answer any of your further questions if I am able to.
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
508 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   07:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
65170 - Glenn, these are direct intaglio.

Intaglio progressives are very very rare, the Postal Printing House of Securities, Prague never sells any, so those put up for auction come from the possessions of the relevant engravers who have died.

See e.g. lot 2713 in section Czechoslovakia 1953-92, page 4/8 (as well ff.) of Burda Auctions: http://www.burda-auction.com/en/pub...6/philately/ .
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Edited by florian - 12/19/2014 07:35 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4109 Posts
Posted 12/19/2014   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks for your excellent blow-ups setting off the splendour of the glittering colours


Thanks for your compliments but it's the scanner who does the work
Plus I was lucky to inherit my grandfather's collection
which included many Czechoslovakian stamps up to the mid seventies.
Although it was in the sixties when I first started noticing
that there is something special about these multicoloured
engraved Czech stamps.

This one below I first saw at one of Toronto's numerous
stamp stores shortly after it was issued and I really liked
the engraving and the colours.

Dealers here used to charge roughly double of the face value for new issues.( same as Scott I believe)
I don't know what the Czech Koruna (crown) was worth at the time
but it wasn't very much.

Czechoslovakia Scott 1484 1967






We are lucky though that we live in a time where we have
the opportunity to view our stamps like never before
and to show them to others thousands of miles away
and to discuss about them with fellow collectors.
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
508 Posts
Posted 12/20/2014   04:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Quote from lithograving: We are lucky though that we live in a time where we have the opportunity to view our stamps like never before and to show them to others thousands of miles away and to discuss about them with fellow collectors.

I could not agree more.
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Edited by florian - 12/20/2014 04:05 am
Valued Member
France
66 Posts
Posted 12/20/2014   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

Florian, I have in my mind that these stamps were not printed on the Wifag machine.

I explain. Five passes direct intaglio can't be printed on a rotary press. I don't know if they had an other press, but you showed me the printing press "Heim".



As seeing this pic, the wiping is done with paper, a roll of paper wipe the inked flat plate before the printing. This printing press is fed by hand.



The production is not fast, but provides very good quality.

I think it is possible with this machine. Am I wrong?
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