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Andreotti Gravure Press

 
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4628 Posts
Posted 04/30/2014   5:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lithograving to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This US stamp Scott 1684 was printed in multicolour
photogravure on a 7 colour Andreotti.

But looking at this stamp I see areas such as the wing of the bi-plane which appears
more of a rosette type pattern of screening characteristic of offset/litho rather than the
fine dot screening of a normal/typical photogravure printing.





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Edited by lithograving - 03/25/2018 4:36 pm

Valued Member
United Kingdom
290 Posts
Posted 05/01/2014   04:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithograving, I totally agree with you.

In gravure printing EVERY part of the printed design has to be screened when cylinder making.

In litho printing the printed text is generally NOT screened, but remains an unscreened solid. The words "Commercial Aviation" and "1926-1976" do not show any signs of a screen (being a solid black).

The rosette pattern formed by the colours, plus my above comments, mean that I am certain that this is a litho printing, as you suspect.

GLENN
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Netherlands
897 Posts
Posted 05/01/2014   08:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What makes you think it was photogravure in the first place????

On the other hand, do not forget that most early US photogravure stamps were autotypical or surface-variable instead of depth-variable!

pozdrawiam, Rein
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4628 Posts
Posted 05/01/2014   4:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What makes you think it was photogravure in the first place????


Scott shows it as Photogravure (Andreotti)

On this USPS Souvenir Page which was posted by wt1
on another thread it states Press:Gravure




And actually at first glance I too thought it was just
regular BEP seventies photogravure printing.
Until I noticed the rosettes on the wings.


Rein would you please elaborate on this.....
Quote:
most early US photogravure stamps were autotypical or surface-variable instead of depth-variable!


.......totally new to me , sounds interesting.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
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Posted 05/04/2014   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithograving,

I will!

But basically it is the same way of screening that was normal for offset-litho [apart from the stochastic screen] and for typography.

I will scan some US examples in due course!

Already some Brasil stamps!








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Edited by Galeoptix - 05/04/2014 11:10 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/05/2014   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rein, yes I can see there is a similarity between the Brazilian ones
and some US Andreotti photogravure issues.

Going by that information then the Spirit of '76 issue
would also have been auto-typical photogravure printing.

US Scott 1631a (1629 - 1631) 1976







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Edited by lithograving - 03/25/2018 4:43 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4628 Posts
Posted 05/05/2014   7:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The BEP must have been experimenting with this
so called auto-typical photogravure for some issues only
because in April 1976 (right after the Commercial Aviation issue shown above)
the USPS issued the Chemistry stamp which shows no sign
of any rosette type pattern of screening as far as I can see.

Wow,for sure no quality control here when it came to centering.

US Scott 1685 1976






To me it appears that the screening is partly
composed of rhomboid dots which is supposed to be a characteristic of EME (Electro Mechanically Etched)
or computer etched instead of the traditional chemically etched.




Was the BEP ahead of other printers in this?


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Edited by lithograving - 03/25/2018 4:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
897 Posts
Posted 05/07/2014   12:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No Belgium was first in 1982!

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Pillar Of The Community
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4628 Posts
Posted 05/07/2014   7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rein, what was that first Belgian EME stamp ?

Do you have any scans, you could show here?

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Posted 02/09/2019   01:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Note: Bumped Thread from 2014.

FYI
1976 New Press takes over printing of the Christmas Issue.
"Winter Pastime" Nathaniel Currier
Sc#1702 13c



U.S. CHRISTMAS STAMPS INTRODUCE NEW PRESS

The Postal Service has announced that approximately 70 per cent, of
the stamps based upon the Currier print, "Winter Pastime," will be
printed on the gravure portion of a new webfed eight-colour
combination gravure-intaglio press recently installed at the Bureau of
Engraving and Print-ing. The intaglio portion of the new press will
not be utilised for this issue.

The remaining 30 per cent, will be printed on the conventional
gravure press formerly known as the Andreotti press and will differ
from those printed on the new press. The most apparent differences
will have to do with the pane format, position of plate numbers, and
absence of some familiar marginal inscriptions.

Sheets produced on the Andreotti press will be of the standard
four-pane layout. The first plate numbers will appear in the usual
positions on each of the four panes as will Mr. ZIP, "Use Zip Code"
and "Mail Early in the Day."

The sheet format for stamps produced on the new press will be
markedly different. While there will be. four panes to each sheet,
there will be no horizontal and vertical gutters to provide selvedge all
the way around each pane.

There will be a vertical strip of selvedge on the right side and on the
left side of each sheet. This means' the two panes forming the left
half of the sheet will have selvedge on their left side of each sheet.
This means the two panes forming the left half of the sheet will have
selvedge on their left sides only and that the two panes forming the
right half will have selvedge on their right sides only.
The five plate numbers will move progressively up and down the
selvedge on a pane-to-pane basis as a result of each full rotation of
the gravure cylinders printing two panes and three rows of stamps.
The plate numbers, therefore, will move with each successive
impression on the web of paper.

In addition to "floating" plate numbers and the absence of gutters,
panes of stamps produced by the new press will be distinguished by
the absence of Mr. ZIP, "Use Zip Code" and "Mail Early in the Day."
Stamps removed from panes can be identified by slight variations in
colour. These differences resulted from use of solvent-based inks on
the Andreotti press and water-based inks, on the new press.

The impending use of the new press was announced by the Postal
Service and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing at the Fourth
National Philatelic Symposium last January in Tempe, Arizona,
Both agencies said at the time that there were only two courses of
action to be taken with regard to the plate numbers — allow them to
"float" or trim them off entirely.
Gordon C. Morison, Director of the Office of Customer Programmes,
said the Postal Service after careful consideration decided it would
direct the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to let the plate numbers
"float."

"We concluded that to trim off the plate numbers would be to decree
that nobody could collect plateblocks for issues printed on the new
press," Morison said, "We decided, therefore, to leave to the
individual philatelist the decision to collect them or pass them up."

He pointed out that if the new press performs to expectations,
as-many as half of the future commemorative issues could be
produced on it. "Our removing plate numbers from all of these wouh(
have amounted to the Postal Service saying that no collector,
regardless of his or her wishes, could save plateblocks from a
significant number of issues. But, by allowing the numbers to remain,
the Postal Service is saying the collector who wants them isn't bound
by the preference of the collector who doesn't want them."

The combination press promises to represent an important
development in U.S. stamp printing, combining the full-colour
potential of gravure with the sharpness and clarity of recess
engraving.

The press, when fully employed, is to be capable of printing regular,
commemorative or booklet stamps on a web of pregummed, coated
paper, phosphor-tagging them, pre-cancelling them and printing on
the back if desired, perforating, cutting and delivering stacks of 100
sheets.

Source : Australian Stamp Monthly, October 1976
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Edited by rod222 - 02/09/2019 01:24 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
897 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   03:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

sounds like a Koebau-Giori-DLR press like in the early 1970-ies was the dream of every security printer printing stamps!

Like the Gemini/Jumelle for Harrison! And the new press in Pretoria South Africa.

http://foro.filateliaargentina.org/...toria#p69606
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Edited by Galeoptix - 02/09/2019 07:15 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4628 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod thanks for that article.
I believe that would be the BEP A press which is mentioned in this stamp glossary.

http://www.philatino.com/pages/Defi...20Terms.html

A printing press at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. The press, capable of producing up to eight colors (five-color gravure and three-color intaglio), has produced a number of single-color definitives in the Transportation coil and Great Americans series, as well as a number of commemoratives and airmails, such as the 36-cent Igor Sikorsky. The A Press, actually designated press 702, was obtained by the BEP in 1973.

 Not sure about the 1973 date though. Your article states that this was a new (in 1976) webfed eight-colour combination gravure-intaglio press recently installed at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.
Maybe the date in the glossary is wrong or perhaps the BEP bought it in 1973 and it took some time set it up and do trial printings on it?
Scroll down the alphabet and see also info regarding B, C, D presses.


There is similar information on this site from the United States Stamp Society
https://www.usstamps.org/resources/glossary/

In the search field enter BEP press and it will bring up various BEP printing presses.

Pity there is no mention of who manufactured these printing presses.
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26354 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
LG,
I would presume the editor of Australian Stamp Monthly had constant press release reports from many countries, to bulk out their monthly editions.
This information would have been supplied from a US philatelic Journalist.

Don't presume I can keep up with you guys in the most part, you are way over my head. I do post items I know that you will find interest.
Printing type, Press model and gum specifics, is about as far as I can understand with some ease.


Quote:
Maybe the date in the glossary is wrong or perhaps the BEP bought it in 1973 and it took some time set it up and do trial printings on it?


That sounds reasonable, to install, train staff, and have a confident production outcome, would not come overnight.
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Edited by rod222 - 02/09/2019 2:30 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4628 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   2:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rein

What makes you think that this A press was built by Koenig & Bauer?

I tend to think it was a Goebel similar to the BABN Goebel press
except the BEP one had 5 photogravure stations.

The BEP bought a few Goebel presses over the years.
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Australia
26354 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   2:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

LG,
a note from one of your links, found my interest, not known prior.


Quote:
During the time the early line-engraved Queen Victoria issues were being produced in Great Britain, it was standard practice to produce six preliminary sheets for each new plate. One of these sheets was kept for archiving purposes, and the remaining ones were frequently processed, perforated, and released. Many such issues differed from the normally released ones in color, watermark, paper, or even perforations. Because the quantities of these "abnormal" stamps were so limited, they were immediately considered highly collectible rarities.

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4628 Posts
Posted 02/09/2019   2:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod, your multitude of interests and general knowledge
of philately amazes me.

I always enjoy looking at your Steiner pages which are very
informative and so well organized.

Like how & from where did/do you accumulate all this material?

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