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Scott 78c, 24c 1861 Blackish Violet

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Posted 06/28/2014   02:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add billw2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Thought I'd throw this out there to help you guys identify one of these in case you ever actually come across one.

First, these stamps are basically known used between 1864 and early 1865. I have yet to know of a certified 78c used in 1866 or 1867. Sort of like the 3 cent Pinks that were used during a very small window in the late summer/early fall of 1861.

The easiest way to call a true Blackish Violet is simple, they look black in person. Think 12c or 15c (69 and 77) or Black Jack Black.

Not dark grey, those are often found used around 1866 or so and are known as Dark Lilacs.

TRUE Blackish Violets look BLACK in person at first glance and under close examination have a SLIGHT violet hue to them.

The covers in this image are not mine, these are both in the reference collection of the PF and are from the same correspondence and posted about one week apart. Based upon the centering and dated these almost certainly came from the same sheet. Notice how these stamps aren't any clear shade of grey, they appear to be black.

I would simply never buy one of these without a cert unless you're able to discern them on your own which not many people can. Period.

Oddly enough, once you know what to look for they're among the easier of the 24 cent shades to discern.



Hope this helps.

Bill
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Posted 06/28/2014   10:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow those are beautiful! PF has a wonderful reference collection. Your stuff is normally beautiful too and I hope you show more of it in the near future!
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Posted 06/28/2014   11:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the useful info, Bill.
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Posted 08/29/2019   05:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gallejois to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What would you say about this one?

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Posted 08/29/2019   07:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bettie boo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think this is one
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Posted 08/29/2019   08:34 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that. I often think I see some violet in 24s. This clarifies what is legit. The two examples just posted above look gray - not black. Not likely 78c.
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Posted 08/29/2019   09:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bud to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for this. Very helpful.
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Posted 08/29/2019   1:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Regarding the above discussion, my experience with 78c's is the following: I have 3 certified used 78c's. All three are certified by PSE with Richard Drews on at least one of the certs. One of the three stamps has also been certified genuine by PF, fairly recently. I would say that none of these 3 stamps would be what I would have called black or blackish violet; I would have called them some degree of dark gray.

The only time I might have come across a black 78c was about 25 years ago or more. There was a dealer in Vermont named Walter Duncanson who used to advertise in Linns. He was offering a 24 cent 1861, not advertised as a 78c but who verbally described by him as a color that had to be seen to believe. In hand I

had to agree with him; it was the darkest 24 center I had ever seen but being a novice at the time and with the stamp having having as I recall either a straight edge or perf problem on the right side I did not keep it and sent it back—a regret to this day as a possible rarity that got away.

I'm sure we all have stories like that.
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Edited by funcitypapa - 08/29/2019 3:53 pm
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Posted 08/29/2019   2:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison, could you post your 3 certified used 78c's? I realize the color will not be calibrated to previous pics, but I still think it would be useful. Thank you!
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Posted 08/29/2019   2:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For what (little) it is worth, I believe market pressures have resulted in a loosening up of the criteria for 24c Blackish Violet stamps.

I know of only three genuine uses on cover of a "real" blackish violet (including the ex Cliff Friend standard for blackish violet that I sold in Bill Herzog sale in 1981 and recently repurchased for another client) . I don't recall seeing any off-cover examples at all that could match them. Color changes with loss of "patina" when stamps are soaked from covers. I sold a second cover with #78c to Randy Shoemaker (PSAG) for his reference collection. That would be the certificate of choice for any #78c in my opinion.

As an aside, the same thing has happened to 3c Pigeon Blood Pinks and 5c 1857 issue Indian Reds - criteria have changed and the market pool is now polluted with a lot of brown water.
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Edited by Richard Frajola - 08/29/2019 3:47 pm
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Posted 08/29/2019   3:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with Richard's interpretation above. Khj I will be glad to provide images
of the stamps I have access to and the certs ( others in bank) but being technologically challenged I will forward same to Shermae who will post them later this evening.
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Edited by funcitypapa - 08/29/2019 3:43 pm
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Posted 08/29/2019   3:30 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can also send email them to me and I will post them for you.
Don
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Posted 08/29/2019   3:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add funcitypapa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok: don what email address do I send them to? If you feel more comfortable send info privately to me via forum
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Edited by funcitypapa - 08/29/2019 3:50 pm
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Posted 08/29/2019   4:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gallejois to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What about this shade?

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Posted 08/29/2019   5:44 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

funcitypapa's stamps







Don
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Posted 08/29/2019   6:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gallejois to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This page should be of interest to this thread.
https://siegelauctions.com/display_...s.php?id=130
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