Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Scott 78c, 24c 1861 Blackish Violet

 
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6718 Posts
Posted 08/29/2019   6:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, funcitypapa and Don!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
168 Posts
Posted 08/29/2019   10:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tipzi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've owned Seigel census #18 and #44 and three others certified as 78c, and I STILL can't differentiate between dark, blackish shades that will certify as Blackish Violet versus the Dark Lilac. And I once viewed a #78c on cover, certified, that was paler than a dozen #78's I have and with no discernable color, just a brownish gray.




Regarding the above images, taken off the PF website, the left stamp is Dark Lilac and the right one is Blackish Violet, I see no difference whatsoever. I wouldn't fork over much of a premium for a stamp that can have so little color differentiation from the common shade.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1303 Posts
Posted 08/30/2019   03:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I totally agree, Tipzi. If we add what Richard wrote, it seems not possible to tell a blackish violet - today - from other colors using a reference collection. So at the expertising organizations there must be other ways to decide this, for example looking at the color under high magnification and seeing some deciding factors there. What could this be? Ink dots, different absorption of the color in the fibers? Just looking at the stamps' colors like this can't help.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamperix - 08/30/2019 03:23 am
Moderator
Learn More...
7191 Posts
Posted 08/30/2019   04:02 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Colors are subjective and there are a number of other non-objective factors in how human view colors. For example scientists often point to 'color constancy'; this is where our brain's expectations overrides the actual color of the item. In other words, when you look at a lemon your brain tells you it should be yellow and this influences the color you 'see'. We interpret colors as stable and unchanging, regardless of the effects of colored illumination as this demo clearly shows
https://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements...ception.html
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1303 Posts
Posted 08/30/2019   05:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very impressive, Don. But that's just the advantage normally of a reference collection, that you don't have these effects, as you compare the stamps side by side under the same environment. If you really know that one stamp is the real color and the other has to be checked, you can do it with a good eye. For example, bluish part can normally see quite well. in the two last stamps above I don#t see a difference, as Tipzi, or at least the one on the right is not more blackish (maybe a bit darker, but not more or less bluish or violet). For the 3c 1861 pink stamps I read it helps to look under magnification if you see any other ink parts speaking for rose (=red). So I asked if this could be the case for the 24c?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
25 Posts
Posted 09/17/2019   3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gallejois to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Question: If, as has been stated a few times, the defining characteristic of 78c's is their blackness, why is the stamp called "blackish violet"? Where does the violet factor in? Also, since the violet color is considered a sub-type of 70 (70c), and all other 78s are some shade of lilac, why isn't 78c called "blackish lilac"?

Something else to consider: given what's been said in this thread, does everyone reject the examples portrayed on this web site?
https://www.theswedishtiger.com/78-scotts.html
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Gallejois - 09/17/2019 3:39 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
758 Posts
Posted 09/19/2019   2:53 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I just came across the stamp on the right below. Next to it I put a stamp I feel pretty good about being a 70: red lilac.

The stamp doesn't look black in person, but I'd certainly say blackish with a violet tinge. I guess I know what the answer will be. Send to the PF, or we can't tell with a computer image. I know, but interested to hear if there might be any other insight here.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by rlsny - 09/19/2019 2:58 pm
Valued Member
United States
168 Posts
Posted 09/20/2019   10:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tipzi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



This stamp is not a certified #78c but it illustrates a quality of the blackish violet stamp. Note that as black and heavy as the cancel is, Washington's coat is as dark. Compared to the black cancel, the stamp ink has some color. This is what you look for in a #78c to start with.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
758 Posts
Posted 09/20/2019   10:54 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If that's the case then the stamp I posted is definitely not that. I don't think it's a #60 or 70c, those don't seem to be this dark. Dark Lilac on Siegel looks quite black too, as someone else said.

So that leaves the possibility that it's just a very dark red lilac I guess? I think if there is any one issue that will drive me insane it's the 24c.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
168 Posts
Posted 09/20/2019   10:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tipzi to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny, I think you're right about dark red lilac.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2019 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2019 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05