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US Airmail Precancels

 
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Posted 07/07/2014   08:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add blcjr to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am looking at a book about US precancels and it contains the following statement:
Quote:
During 1971-74, there were three different airmail precancels produced and they are referred to as the Congressional issues. These were the only airmail issues that were ever Bureau precanceled.

Source:

http://www.precancels.com/wordpress...ecancels.pdf
Is this correct, or is there some technical distinction I'm missing? Because I've seen precancel blocks of C1 and C2. I collect US airmail stamps and covers, and am wanting to add precanceled airmail stamps to the collection. Besides the precanceled varieties of C1, C2, C78 and C79, are there any others?

TIA.

Basil
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United States
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Posted 07/07/2014   09:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PoStat4evR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I may be wrong, but I beleive that statement is true. During that time frame. The only way to get those precancelled items was on a Congressional piece of mail. Other airmail items were cancelled in the past, but not for congress use.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
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Posted 07/07/2014   09:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the statement may be correct in the context of "Bureau" precancels, however, there were local precancels made for other US Airmail issues as in the example shown below (currently for sale on eBay):



Of course, some of these could have been "favor" precancels.
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Posted 07/07/2014   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basil, the statement is correct about bureau precancels - those precancelled at the same time the stamps were printed. Many airmails were precancelled in the local post offices. Most of the old ones, pre-1940, were actually used on mail. The best available data show Scott C1 - 241 different varieties, C2 - 216 different, C3 - 154 different. I have quite a few available, email me off-site. They are a lifetime persuit, and mostly reasonably priced.
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Posted 07/07/2014   11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Other airmail items were cancelled in the past, but not for congress use.
Well, perhaps that is what was meant, but that is not what was said (e.g., "These were the only airmail issues that were ever Bureau precanceled.")

Quote:
I think the statement may be correct in the context of "Bureau" precancels, however, there were local precancels made for other US Airmail issues as in the example shown below (currently for sale on eBay)
I wondered about that distinction ("Bureau precanceled") myself. On further research, I find that there are two definitive catalogs by the Precancel Stamp Society (PSS), one for "Bureau" precancels, and one for "Town" precancels. So the statement is correct insofar as the C78 and C79 were "Bureau" precancels. Incidentally, I guess this is the inference to be drawn from that fact that the C78 and C79 precancels have Scott designations -- C78b and C79b -- whereas earlier town-type airmail precancels do not. So that clears that up!

However, there is still a bit of confusion over reading this:



Note what I've underlined in red, as well as "Figure 31." What is being said here? The most natural way to read it (so it seems to me) is that there were four precancels: three "Bureau" and one "local." So what's being illustrated in "Figure 31?" The three Bureau precancels? I'm not so sure about that. According to Scott's US Specialized catalog (I'm reading p. 373 of the 2013 edition), the C78b precancel came in two variations: the one depicted by either of the C78 precancels in "Figure 31," and a less common variation with "DC" only. From my reading of Scott, there were only two Bureau precancels, although the first (C78b) came in two varieties, one with "Washington, D.C." and the other with just "D.C." Are those the "three" Bureau cancels the writer is talking about? But if so, what is being depicted in "Figure 31?" The two C78 precancels both have "Washington, D.C." EDIT: I originally missed the fact that the two C78 precancels are not the same! E.g., one has "D.C." and the other "DC." So pictured are the two varieties of C78b.

While questions remain, I think I know enough for now. I already have a nice block of the C79b precancel. So I guess my quest is now for examples of the C78b precancels, at least the "Washington, D.C." variety, and the "D.C." variety if the cost is not prohibitive.

Thanks for the replies.

Basil
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Edited by blcjr - 07/07/2014 11:21 am
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Posted 07/07/2014   11:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Basil, Those are the only airmails to be issued by the "Bureau" the local issued by DC PM. The 3 "Bureau's" are being shown. Not the local! These are essentially Official Issues since the general public could not use them.
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Edited by warrehouse - 07/07/2014 11:32 am
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Posted 07/07/2014   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PoStat4evR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
MAy I suggest that figure 31 is showing the "three" different cancels. The first two are the "Bureau" versions and the 3rd is the "Local" version
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Posted 07/07/2014   1:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The local Washington, DC, Congressional precancel is in the lower right corner.



The most obvious difference is the spacing of "D.C." and the font size.

Regards, Robert
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Edited by Trainwreck - 02/01/2018 6:19 pm
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Posted 07/07/2014   1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
MAy I suggest that figure 31 is showing the "three" different cancels. The first two are the "Bureau" versions and the 3rd is the "Local" version
Don't think so: the third is a different stamp altogether, i.e. a variant of C79, not C78.


Quote:
The local Washington, DC, Congressional precancel is in the lower right corner.
Okay, I think I get it now: the "local" precancel is a variation of C72 (not the C78 or C79 depicted in "Figure 31"). But why distinguish this one from other local airmail precancels, such as the C1 and C3 precancels I've seen, or the C33 wt1 illustrates? Because it was the only local "Washington, D.C." precancel?

I'm learning a lot here; thanks for all the replies.

Basil
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Posted 07/07/2014   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The precancel (the black overprint) is independent of the underlying stamp. The Precancel Stamp Society classifies these precancels as types 71 (Bureau), 81 (Bureau) and 821 (local). When applied to these particular airmail stamps (Scott C72, C78 and C79) they are known as the Congressional airmail precancels, because they were produced at the request of Congress.

Hope this helps, Robert
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Posted 07/07/2014   2:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The clarifications are correct. Figure 31 shows the 3 'congressional' bureau precancels. They only come on those 3 denominations. The big picture shows PSS 821 in the lower right. That comes on many denominations, airmail and regulars. There are 21 different precancel 'styles' from DC. Only a few of them were used on airmails.
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Posted 07/07/2014   4:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm having trouble reconciling these two replies:


Quote:
The precancel (the black overprint) is independent of the underlying stamp. The Precancel Stamp Society classifies these precancels as types 71 (Bureau), 81 (Bureau) and 821 (local). When applied to these particular airmail stamps (Scott C72, C78 and C79) they are known as the Congressional airmail precancels, because they were produced at the request of Congress.



Quote:
The clarifications are correct. Figure 31 shows the 3 'congressional' bureau precancels. They only come on those 3 denominations. The big picture shows PSS 821 in the lower right. That comes on many denominations, airmail and regulars. There are 21 different precancel 'styles' from DC. Only a few of them were used on airmails.


Taking the second first, Figure 31 does not show "3 denominations." It shows two denominations: two of C78, and one of C79. The "big picture" shows a C72 in the lower right. But I do see in the bottom row what I think is being described in the first response: 3 "congressional" bureau precancels, in three denominations: Type 71 on C78, Type 81 on C79, and Type 821 on C72. However, this is not consistent with what the original writer was saying, which I nevertheless think I now understand.

Taking the first sentence:


Quote:
During 1971-74, there were three different airmail precancels produced and they are referred to as the Congressional issues.

This refers to what is illustrated in Figure 31: Type 71 on a C78, Type 81 on a C78, and Type 81 on a C79. This statement does not include C72 among the three Congressional precancels, since C72 doesn't fall within the 1971-74 time period. Rather, the C72 precancel is referred to implicitly in the writer's next statement:

Quote:
You will also find one issue with a "local" Washington D.C. precancel.

This is referring to the C72 precancel.

Which just leaves one question. Trainwreck says that the 3 Congressional Precancels were C72, C78, and C79. The writer I'm citing says they are two variations of C78 and C79.

So, was C72 a "Congressional" precancel, or not?

Basil
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Posted 07/07/2014   4:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In answer to my last question, I found this on another forum:

Quote:
here is some additional info I got at other sites from helpful friends:
The 10c stamp is not a bureau precancel, but rather a type 821. This is a vinyl handstamp. You can find many airmail stamps precanceled by non-bureau precancel devices (usually the early issues) but only 3 different airmails are listed in the bureau catalog:
C78 - Washington DC, Style 71 ("D.C")
C78 - Washington DC, Style 81 ("DC")
C79 - Washington DC, Style 81 ("DC")

Here's more:
According to the Washington Star (May 23, 1971) the 10c Runway precancels were made available to members of Congress to use on May 3, 1971. The domestic airmail rate increased to 11c on May 16 -- less than two weeks later.

So I guess the answer could be "Yes." But, that would technically mean that there were four congressional precancels, not three: the local Type 821 on a C72, the two C78's (Type 71 and 81), and C79 (Type 81).

I think I understand it now. (Whew!)

Basil
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Edited by blcjr - 07/08/2014 01:00 am
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Posted 02/01/2018   8:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BreefmackUSA to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Did somebody say C78b?

I've got this 'little' block:



Apparently the "DC" version is more valuable, but I hadn't seen too many blocks this size, so grabbed this one with the "D.C." version at a club auction a while back (I think...).

Al
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