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Czechoslovak definitives, colour & photo screenings  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
531 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   08:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bonjour, Pappy24,

Thank you for your comment. What Mr. Vondøich went on to describe were the latest technical developments (rather than history) in great detail, which I find too difficult to translate lacking the proper technical terms.

Your enquiries are are always welcome if within my ability to answer them.
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Valued Member
France
69 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   09:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Florian,

Thank you. Please translate the text of Mr. Vondoich as you can, may be I will understand. And I will try to explain.

Papy24
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
585 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   09:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
http://www.cpslib.org/aip/1957-974.htm

Plenty of headings plus an image but no extra information?!?!?
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Valued Member
France
69 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Galeoptix,

I don't know why they did not use a traditional photogravure screen, perhaps they had not.

It was a good way to make a die engraved by acid, with a corn-grain screen. A transfer roll is the only way to transfer the engraving on the printing cylinder with recess. The best reason is the good result.

Sorry, I don't know how they did in Mexico. But I will be interested.

Papy24
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
585 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   11:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"I don't know why they did not use a traditional photogravure screen, perhaps they had not."

The photogravure cylinders the Belgian Stamp Printing Works needed for their WIFAG-press and their Goebel presses did come from a third party: Ets. Malvaux in Brussels.
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Edited by Galeoptix - 01/08/2015 11:04 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I continue to be confused with some aspects of photogravure screening.


I agree with you there Glenn but with all the expert
information here I'm slowly understanding some
of it.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   12:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is my copy of that first (1953) WIFAG I IP mentioned
by Florian on the previous page
http://www.cpslib.org/aip/1953-766.htm

Czechoslovakia Scott 633






It looks like a pretty crude effort, more like a
trial run and I'm sure the printer wasn't happy with
the results.
Even the engraved frame portion is very simple and
only the name of the designer is given.
Was it done by an apprentice engraver?


I had to laugh when I read what the inscription says:

The Socialist Struggle and Soviet Methods of Working Improves Rail Transport

So the Russians had to show the Czechs how to work.



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Edited by lithograving - 03/24/2018 7:34 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
585 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   1:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


A very well visible traditional cross-screen!
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4361 Posts
Posted 01/08/2015   2:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see that Rein, so why didn't the Czech printer continue with
this traditional cross-screen?
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
531 Posts
Posted 01/09/2015   04:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Galeoptix - Rein, I am sorry. As you will have noticed, I am no wizard at the finer points of printing techniques, especially those I have little or no particular interest in. Ars longa ...

I have just been trying to be a bit helpful drawing exclusively on what has appeared in the Czech philatelic press. Naturally, as anywhere else, even in my country there are areas in stamp printing requiring further clarification where I cannot be of any help because certain things are beyond my understanding being outside my field of interest.

Quote from your post of 01/06/2015 4:45 pm: In 1966 - so still the old WIFAG - with a perfectly engraved screen??? To me the no etching equipment story is an urban myth.

Quote from your post of Yesterday 09:09 am: http://www.cpslib.org/aip/1957-974.htm Plenty of headings plus an image but no extra information?!?!?

It is up to you, not me poor layman, to draw some conclusions from comparing the above example with that of http://www.cpslib.org/aip/1966-1558.htm I presented for you to see that what was available in 1957 was not very different from what was available in 1966.

Besides, I would think twice before passing judgement on situations I was not famiilar with.

Naturally, neither the stamp creators nor the printers nor stamp collectors were happy with the poor results of the early attempts at printing bi-coloured stamps given the limited means available then but the situation kept improving thanks to the unceasing efforts of all those having to do with the problem.
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Edited by florian - 01/09/2015 04:54 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
585 Posts
Posted 01/09/2015   05:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,

I have nothing but admiration for what was achieved by the printers in the pre-1960 period!! They seem to have been able of an awful lot!

The Chinese Printing Works had their WIFAG in 1959 installed by Czech engineers!

All I want to find out is what methods they used and how they manage to print the various stamps of Cz-Sl.

I am glad you dug up some literature for us, but as to the catalogue pages they do not help me much OR I am overlooking something...

pozdrawiam, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
585 Posts
Posted 01/09/2015   06:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,

reading the Vond#345;ich article indeed he explicitely writes about moletting! And about how the lines should not be too thin for otherwise during the moletting process they may get broken. I can even imagine the skills of getting a fine screen moletted...

This article deserves to get translated in full! I may get started "At first a bit of history ....' but then again my Czech is only derivative from my knowledge of Polish.



pozdrawiam, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
531 Posts
Posted 01/09/2015   09:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bonjour, Papy24,

The eight-part serial "Postage Stamp Printing in the Postal Printing House of Securities" by Miroslav Vondrich (without the diacritic over the r in the latter name) appeared in the FILATELIE monthly between April 2004 and January 2005.

The original can be viewed here:
Part 1, pp. 18 - 20 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_04.pdf
Part 2, pp. 36 - 37 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_05.pdf
Part 3, pp. 37 - 38 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_07.pdf
Part 4, pp. 29 - 30 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_08.pdf
Part 5, pp. 40 - 41 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_09.pdf
Part 6, pp. 35 - 36 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_11.pdf
Part 7, pp. 35 - 36 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_11.pdf
Part 8, pp. 36 - 37 http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2005_01.pdf

Here is an attempt at the contents of each part (the headings in Czech printed in bold type):

Part1: /Introduction/, I. Rotary Printing - Pale copy /of the design/, detailed line drawing , engraving - Transfer roll, its adjustments and corrections.

Part 2: Rotary Intaglio combined with photogravure - Intaglio cylinder - Treatment of photogravure inks - Production of photogravure cylinders

Part 3: Photogravure cylinder - Etching - Printing

Part 4: Perforation and cutting - Checking /for imperfections/ - Special adjustments to printing cylinders - Paper and inks - Plate flaws - Intaglio plate flaws: those on the die or the transfer roll - re-entry - single lines - dots and minute areas - large or more serious plate flaws

Part 5: Photogravure plate flaws - Flat plate intaglio - Transfer rolling, printing plate - Printing - Perforation

Part 6: Checking - Paper - FDCs - Printing machines - Plate flaws - Diagram of a printing sheet for flat plate printings and those combined with offset printing

Part 7: Flat plate printing combined with offset printing: a single pass through the offset printing machine - new kinds of plate flaws - paper - plate flaws: colour spots - perforation

Part 8: Offset, postcards, holograms, typographic printing: lack of colour intensity in lines - easier to counterfeit - postcards - holograms - letterpress - almost antiquated today


I am afraid the text is full of technical terminology and particular turns of phrase used in this specialized craft, whose exact meaning is not quite clear to me but does not prevent me getting the gist in Czech but which I would be at a loss to express in a foreign language.

Besides tempering with a copyright text in this way is out of the question. Pity.
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Edited by florian - 01/10/2015 03:24 am
Valued Member
France
69 Posts
Posted 01/10/2015   05:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Papy24 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

Thank you Florian. I am translating the text in czech in french and in english but it is a big job for me to write in czech.
I begin to understand very well what it is wrote and it is clear for me.
I will explain later.

Papy24
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
255 Posts
Posted 01/10/2015   10:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,

Articles sound interesting, but there are two link problems...

Part 7, pp. 35 - 36 Link should read: http://knihovna.filaso.cz/filatelie_2004_12.pdf
and not as stated.

Part 8, pp. 36 - 37 Link does not work.

GLENN
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