First Issue Silk Revenue Stamps For Trade

I have the following dupe first issue silk revenue stamps for trade:

R1D
R37D Unlisted!
R38D Unlisted!
R26D
R42D
R59D

First scan reverse of R1D with arrows, second scan front of stamp






Next images of the reverse and front of R37D unlisted in Scott





Next images of the reverse and front of r38d unlisted in scott








Next images reverse and front of R26D out of order sorry








Next images of reverse and front on R42D, notice the cancel!








Next images of R59D reverse and front








I know some collectors have catalog blinders on, if it's not listed in the Scott Catalog and its been so called well studied for over 100 years it just can't be. Simply not true for many reasons!

I want R170P not R mint or used in a block of 4 or larger, also R159 and R160 with readable complete cancels with date, also R179, R180, R181, R183 with the same complete cancels with date.

Let me know what you have!

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

David,

You have to be careful. As I found out the hard way after submitting some 1st issue items for expertization, having a blue thread or fibre is not the ONLY criteria for being a silk paper. Finding debris from the pulp mix that happens to be bluish does not automatically make a stamp a silk paper. The stamp ALSO must have the correct paper color and consistency, ink color, impression, and cancel date, for it to be a silk paper.

There's a reason some are not listed in Scott as having silk papers.

I have my doubts about some of the above, e.g., the R42. That cancel date is way too early and the paper type is wrong.

For other examples of "false" silk papers, see the following:

http://www.revenue-collector.com/pages/1670_.html

http://www.revenue-collector.com/pages/3239_.html

None of these are silk papers, these "threads" are just leftovers from the paper making process (except the R42d, which simply has something stuck to it). Just to begin with, if a stamp is cancelled before 1870 it's impossible to be silk paper, it wasn't issued until then. Plus silk paper is NOT simply old paper with some threads in it but a separate paper with it's own characteristics. For example, the paper on the R38d is much too thin to ever be a silk paper. I suggest that it is you who are wearing the blinders. Apparently there are many reference books on revenues that you have not bothered to read, and clearly you think that only you know the real "truth" about what does and does not exist.

So then neither of your want to trade, no problem.

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

Umm... you are missing the point completely.

Hi David - Both Dan and Bart have helped me immensely in my silk paper learning process. Many silks are very expensive stamps. I'm not sure of their real-world value, but I would suggest sending for certs for some of them. Especially the "unlisted" ones. I have some "maybe-maybe not" silks. That's what I plan to do.

By the way, I'm of the same opinion as Dan and Bart regarding the scans you provided. But you don't want to offer them up as silks to less knowledgeable collectors, either here or in another venue. A cert would be a definitive way of learning and being honest.

Revenuecollector, if I can get you to accept these stamps as really being silk issues to your satisfaction, by way of obtaining a certificate. Would you still be interested in them?

But before I take on a major expanse of certification, I need to know for sure 100% for sure that:

#1 You want the ones that come back with a positive certificate.

#2 That you have the stamps I'm looking for.

I was not missing the point at all, seems unnecessary, as I'm positive these are silk paper issues, sorry if you were mistaken that I missed the point.

So, then I'm waiting to find out whether you have the necessary stamps I need. I think this would be the right and proper place to start. What say you?

southpaw, it's good both people helped you immensely in your learning silk paper issues, something I learned many, many years ago! While I don't really care for certs, I can see where the need for some stamp collectors to obtain them. As I indicated above, in this case I'm willing to obtain certs, in order to get the stamps I need.

As to your second posting, certs to me are only a piece of paper, in any deal both stamp collectors should have the required knowledge as I do to make a deal. If a less knowledgeable collector was interested in the stamps in question, by all means he could if he wanted to incur the expense to get a cert before the trade was made, but it would be his choice.

So, then Revenuecollector let me know if you have the stamps I'm looking for.

If someone else has the stamps I'm looking for and want a certs, contact me to see if we can work this out.

If everybody agrees with the other person, then this is a big waste of time, as he stated none of my stamps are on the silk paper, are you willing to past up a possible trade based on his posting? Really!

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

No, I think you still are missing the point. While you may be "positive they are silk papers", both Bart and I are telling you that at least some of them aren't. The fact that you are completely dismissing both Bart and my guidance regarding paper, cancel date, etc., and choosing to focus solely on the presence of blue threads, tells me you are in over your head, no offense intended.

You may be a great Battleship revenue specialist. I don't know, as I really don't collect them. However, your comments, questions, and use of terminology with respect to 1st issue material tells me that while 1st issue revenues may be an area of INTEREST to you, it is not an area of EXPERTISE.

If you wish to ignore everything both Bart and I have said, that's certainly your prerogative, but to turn it around and frame it such that our opinions only matter and you'll only get expertization if we commit to trade with you is, I'm sorry to say, foolhardy.

My expertise is nowhere near that of Bart's, *BUT* in the last 13 years I have focused almost exclusively on 1st-3rd issue revenues, not only examining tens of thousands of R1-R151, but also consulting regularly with acknowledged specialists and experts in the field.

If I don't know something, I try to find out, not just by asking a cross section of people on a message board, but contacting those that *DO* know (Eric Jackson, Richard Friedberg, Brian Bleckwenn, Mike Mahler, Mike Morrissey, Ron Lesher, Bart and Karl, and others).

Not to speak for Bart (and Bart, please correct me if I am wrong) but he and I are trying to *help* you. We're not trying to pooh pooh your offerings because we want to get them on the cheap, or put one past you. Rather we are seeing mistakes in identification and assessment, and for the good of the SCF community as whole, want to make sure that no one buys or trades for something that it isn't.

Also that's how we, as collectors grow. By learning through our mistakes or errors in approach. I certainly have made my share.

Revenuecollector, I also have made mistakes.

First Issue Revenue was me first love in Revenue Stamps of the U.S.A.

My point in my latest posting, guess I did not make it clear.

I accept your assessments of these stamps, no problem.

What I'm trying to learn from you is, if certs were obtained and they prove me right, would you want to trade for them and do you have the material I want?

If you posting was to just offer advice on these silk revenue stamps proper identification, then there no reason to go on.

I will get certs on them, but only if you have the stamps I'm looking for. I do not want to go thru the trouble of getting certs, without knowing for sure you have what I want.

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

OK, let me put it a bit more bluntly, respectfully but bluntly. If this trade is to be taken seriously, as what you want has some value behind it, you are probably going to need certs in place before someone will take you up on your offer. I would.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up succinctly.

Sorry everyone, no body seems to understand my point. Really kevin504, what good was your reply.

Point is I'm willing to send them off to get certs, but before and at no expanse to anyone, I want to know before sending the stamps off for certs, that the stamps I'm looking for are available. That's all I'm asking. No point in sending them off if the stamps I'm looking for are not available!

So suppose I send the stamps off for certs without knowing if the stamps I'm looking for are available, OK, and then someone says they are interested, but they do not like the agency I obtained the certs from, then I have to send the stamps in question again to get the right and proper cert that the interested person is willing to accept!

Understand now?

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

David - why send off for certs? Because certs will make the silks marketable or tradable. Provided these are silks as you are sure they are, $20 INVESTED in a cert will add much more to their value beyond the cost of the cert. If you are so sure of your identification abilities, this is a no-brainer economically.

Of course $20 per. I'm thinking primarily of the "unlisted" ones.