Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

20c Virginia Apgar Tagging

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 4,854Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3148 Posts
Posted 04/05/2016   8:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add angore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This is supposed to be 2179, 2179a, and 2179b (in order shown). Scott describes all as grainy solid on prephosphored paper. Now, they all look different under UV light as well as visible.

Still learning.

Almost regular light.



UV light



I need some help identifying them correctly and will prepare a reference image set (better normal, UV light)

Update: I was looking at one dealer's eBay listing and if I follow his notes 2179b in the grainiest one so first on left with the lightest being 2179a so the order would be
2179b, 2179, 2179a.

Al
Send note to Staff
Edited by angore - 04/05/2016 9:13 pm

Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
466 Posts
Posted 04/05/2016   9:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codehappy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes when my nieces come over I pull out my UV lamp and a stockbook, turn out the lights, and show off stamps with different kinds of tagging. And I let them wave the lamp over the stamps. They're at the age where glowing stamps are really neat.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7650 Posts
Posted 04/05/2016   10:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Angore, I have two observations. First of all, you need to scan the three stamps. Or at least take a picture under normal light. Your picture is uneven - more light on some of the area.
The second observation. Your UV picture is good, but also uneven. If you are using a Raytech Versalume with both long and shortwave UV the left stamp is shown in long wave UV, the others on the right side are shown in short wave UV. But I think all three stamps are really the same under short wave UV - some stamps appear heavier tagged than others.

Peter
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1245 Posts
Posted 04/05/2016   11:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don't know if this info will help, but thought I would mention it anyway. I was once told by a dealer that 2179b is from plate B3 ... and that B3 only contains 2179b. Unfortunatley, my Durland catalog is too old to mention 2179b. But it does show 2179 being from plates B1 or B2 and 2179a from plates B1, B2 or B3. This would seem to contradict the dealer info, but every B3 plate that I have seen appears to me to be 2179b ... and my Durland is a bit dated. I also have seen a B2 sheet offered on eBay as 2179b, but I would not trust the id. Should I ever stumble across the new Durland, I will check to see if the B3 plate has been relegated to 2179b.
I do believe, however, that the tagging on 2179b is grainier than the other two.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3148 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Although the "normal light" is more uneven than the UV, it was pretty close to what I saw. I can retake the pic with the longwave blocked so I have a pure shortwave but if it does show a difference it can be a clue. There is a difference in tagging rendering under UV.

I checked with Craig Seelig and he only knows two varieties (smooth and grainy tagging) and I have both of his samples. He does not understand Scott's color description.

I did read Estrati's GA summary and 2179b is supposedly grainier. I have a 2012 Durland that I can check also. He also mentions color differences under longwave so will experiment with that tonight.

However, without my pics, I wonder how to tell the varieties apart.

The colors: red brown, orange brown, and bright

I saw this on eBay this am.




Al
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1245 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Al: Your Durland is newer than mine. Can you check the 2179 plates for me? Which plate numbers are shown for each of 2179, 2179a & 2179b? My 2008 Durland makes no mention of 2179b whatsoever.
I saw "complete" sets of the Apgar varieties offered by two eBay sellers. The first is the one you show ... the second is by tbrstamps. Somewhere in the detailed description for the latter, the seller mentions that the tagging on 2179b is grainier than the other two varieties ... which agrees with your info as well as with my own experience.
... John L. ...
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3148 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   6:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have new images. The biggest difference is I blocked one side of my Versalume when taking the shortwave pics and was a little more careful on the exposure.

Normal (Ott light source)



Longwave


Shortwave



I checked my Durland and I have the 2008 with the 2010 supplement. The 2010 mentions 2179b but no plate number.

Esrati had this in his 20th edition news letter.

2179 plates b1/b2 red brown on yellowish or yellow paper. greenish (grainy solid). Brownish purple or blue white in LW.

2197a B1/B2, orange brown. yellow and white paper

2179a (this is now called 2179b) plate b3, orange brown. dead paper with greenish (grainy solid). Ink appears red in LW.


The right end stamp is definitely dead paper. I still see 3 different variety but the difference between the left two are not as obvious.

To me the colors of the right two are more similar. The first looks more red.

Al
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7650 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   7:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Angore, and thank you for these pictures. I think they are much better, and I can see three different varieties (?) now. The stamp in the middle ( on the normal light picture ) looks by far the sharpest in my opinion. The first one looks like it has more red ( orange? ) in it and the third one looks almost like it is underinked.
I still am of the opinion that there is not much tagging difference in the first two - just the amount of tagging used. The third one is indeed dead under LWUV. It also has a printing anomaly, an ink splash in front of 1909.
That last remark came from the flyspecker in me!

Peter
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
49 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   8:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BaldEagle to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
2012 Durland:

2179 B1 & B2 Red Brown $2
2179a B1, B2 & B3 Orange Brown $2
2179b B3 Bright Red Brown $6

All surface prephosphored
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1245 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   10:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would assume that Durland lists the T/A press for both 2179 and 2179a but the Epikos press for 2179b.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3804 Posts
Posted 04/06/2016   11:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If only there were some easy way determine a catalog number for each Apgar stamp, perhaps a scoring system?

Appearance... 0, 1, 2
Phosphorescence... 0, 1, 2
Graininess... 0, 1, 2
Adhesive... 0, 1, 2
Reddishness... 0, 1, 2
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
49 Posts
Posted 04/07/2016   01:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BaldEagle to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
2012 Durland has T/A press for all three.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1245 Posts
Posted 04/07/2016   08:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Will have to do some research but it was my understanding that 2179b was printed on the Epikos press. Could simply be a typo ... or my info could be wrong. Incidentally, I just read that the 2016 Durland is being released during the NY World Stamp Show.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by JLLebbert - 04/07/2016 08:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3148 Posts
Posted 04/07/2016   09:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Esrati states some was printed on Epikos. I started asking dealers who sell them tell them apart.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1245 Posts
Posted 05/10/2016   5:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "Modern Varieties" column of the July 2016 USSN (U.S. Stamp News) has some info on identifying the 3 Apgar varieties. Haven't given it a close look yet but it does verify that 2179b was printed only on the Epikos press with plate B3. 2179 & 2179a were printed on the T/A press using plates B1 & B2. So the 2012 Durland (which incorrectly included B3 as a plate number for 2179 or 2179a) apparently didn't yet have all of the correct info. Presumably this will be addressed in the 2016 edition.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3148 Posts
Posted 05/10/2016   6:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have talked to several others and they acknowledge only two varieties. I still do not see common agreement. One attributed the tagging to paper used. There was supposedly production issues with the B1 plate and inking issues. These were printed by ABNC.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 4,854Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2021 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.19 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05