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1c 1851 Plate 3 Stamps

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Posted 03/30/2021   10:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Under magnification, you can still see some of the toned spots, but they were certainly lightened.

Its hard to be exactly sure what the current stamp looks like, as I've seen, even from Siegel, some items with scans that are brighter than the real underlying object - which helps mask some light toning.

Anyway, at least there is still a scan of the original block.
Preserving good scans of original objects is a significant countermeasure for this situation.
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Posted 03/30/2021   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
RAS sale 1232 / lot 1069 hammered down for $18,000 -- so $21,240 with the tip -- WOW !!! -- hope the buyer knows the history ?
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Posted 03/30/2021   1:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
He bought an invisible block of 4.
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Edited by txstamp - 03/30/2021 1:34 pm
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Posted 03/30/2021   1:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Love it -- "the invisible block of 4" -- makes me wonder what happened to the other 3 positions -- would be nice if they accompanied the "100L3 manufactured, jumbo grader" -- (at least that way the block could be rejoined for study purposes) -- but, alas, presume they are lost to philately forever -- sitting somewhere on the cutting room floor -- very sad. Thankfully, at least we have the scan you posted -- which I have downloaded and saved to my reference files.
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Posted 03/30/2021   2:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are a couple of smaller auction houses, who, if you follow their auctions over time, tend to get a lot of single lots that are maybe 2/3'rds of a stamp.

I actually bought a #7 once, many years ago, that was literally 1/2 of a stamp vertically. I thought I might be able to plate it to a plate 3 position (never was able to) ... anyway, these houses and eBay have been outlets for this type of stuff over the years.
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Posted 03/30/2021   3:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't get it. Stamp was cleaned and pressed? "Restored" may be better term.
Grade 100.

How come certification/graders like to write on some certificates that stamp was "cleaned" or "pressed" or "lightened cancel "... etc ?-you get my drift

And other stamps just get Gem 100

I don't get it

My guess is this stamp is back on market in next years
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Posted 03/30/2021   4:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perfectly good question. There are at least two dimensions to it -

- What will the expert organizations note?
- What will collectors accept / tolerate?

As a collector who understands what the stamp used to look like, would you pay the same amount that someone who is just buying the stamp as it is seen now with the cert?
Does it matter?

Historically, collectors have been very finicky about stamp condition, past and present. That said, cleaning of stamps is not new. It has been going on for a long time.

One thing in the world of cover collecting that I believe I have noticed is that over the past 20 years it has become more acceptable for covers to be "restored"/cleaned - as long as the stamp(s) and markings are not altered in any way.

I don't want to start a long debate over this topic in this thread - feel free to continue in one of the former threads on restoration or create a new one - I thought I'd just add this post as a mostly rhetorical one.
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Posted 04/04/2021   6:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
txstamp - All of these separate threads for each plate are very helpful. I just wish there was a way to search through a thread more than one page at a time.

I recently bought three plate 3 examples, and I'm going to be on the lookout for more. I really like those with the Prussian blue. The 60R3 is signed by Ashbrook, and is purportedly the "Plate Discovery" copy.




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Posted 04/04/2021   8:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot to mention how the first two stamps are plated. The first is 63L3 and the second is 70L3.
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Posted 04/05/2021   10:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
widglo - Hi. Nice stamps, and very glad you like Plate 3.

I'm quite fond of it myself. I put together a large plating of it many years ago, which I now regret parting with.

The Prussian Blue color can be found on both Plate 2 and Plate 3, and I'm convinced that the time frame is November-December of 1856.

The deeper, usually prettier examples do come from plate 3, although I've seen a few pretty nice prussian blue plate 2's as well.

I don't even have to look anything up to know that your 60R3 is what you said. It is a well-known stamp among the (many - not) of us who have studied plate 3 closely. It was the stamp that proved the existence of the plate, and thus, has an important place in the lore. Twenty years ago I would have sacrificed much to obtain it. I'm happy you will give it a good home.

When I have some time - might be awhile, I'll try to double check your other two stamps at some point as best as I can.

In case you haven't found it yet, here is the index to the by-plate 1c threads: https://www.stampcommunity.org/topi...64965#620902
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Posted 04/07/2021   3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your second stamp is not 70L3, but, instead, is 70R3.

The O-scratches are all wrong for 70L, which I have a copy of, and there are many references for. Not that.

The O-scratches work well for 70R3, which, no doubt, is what this got plated to, and the plater just wrote down the wrong pane.

Note to platers:

A common plating mistake - I've seen it on numerous occasions, is to get the position correct, but invert the pane by mistake.

I have a very well traveled cover, with a 1c stamp originally plated by Ashbrook, who wrote a dissertation on the reverse of the cover. He also plated the 1c stamp. Probably by the end of his dissertation on other aspects of the cover, he forgot which pane the stamp came from and inverted it. That misplating corresponded to a stamp of a different Type than the one on the cover, and, has since confused almost every auction house seller who has offered the item. I've seen it offered as most of the different 1c Scott catalog numbers over time.
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Posted 04/07/2021   3:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your 63L3 possible, clearly does not match the Neinken drawing.

I'll have to check if this position has been updated - quite a few Neinken plate 3 drawings have been corrected.
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Posted 04/07/2021   4:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
txstamp - Thanks for taking a close look at my stamps. I actually misread the PF cert on the one I called 63L3. It is actually 64L3. It is like you say, easy to make a mistake if you aren't careful.

The stamp that I called 70L3 was just me regurgitating what was on the two PF certs. Thanks for the correction. I sure wish that more updated Neinken maps were published.
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