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1c 1851 Plate 3 Stamps

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Posted 12/02/2021   1:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Njs900 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Widglo call me at *** Private information removed by Staff. Please do not post your address/email/phone number etc. *** about this stamp.
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Posted 12/02/2021   8:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I said that my best guess was 27L3, but the dot and blur I referred to is on Neinken's map of 27R3. After discussing it with Nathan, I think now that it's probably not either of these.
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Edited by widglo46 - 12/02/2021 8:42 pm
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Posted 01/07/2022   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm making this post mostly to document that a former multiple of 3 from plate 3 has now been broken up.

I'm not so much griping here, as I am just reporting it for posterity. Since material from this plate can be tough to come by, especially by plate-position, its good to have a working knowledge or idea in one's head of what multiples are available - somewhere.

Anyway -- 1 less multiple.

The vertical strip of 3: 74-84-94R3 from my old collection:



The 94R3 from it as it is now:



I will say that I saw the strip for sale about a year ago, and I almost bought it. I wish I had.
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Posted 01/07/2022   2:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to Nathan for continuing to study the stamp that I thought was 27L3. He found a 45-46L3 pair, and we are both convinced now that my stamp is 46L3. There is a plate mark off ornament "C" and a horizontal scratch in the left mid margin that match exactly.
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Posted 01/07/2022   3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for reporting the results of that.

That general area of the plate around 46L3 was not well known when the Neinken book was published. I know Dick Celler made progress in that general area of the plate, but I don't currently have access to his data. I think I may have an old email from him about this region which I'll try to remember to look up when I'm back home.

In any event, Nathan is one of the very few others with good reference material for plate 3, and who knows how to use it.
You are in good hands.
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Posted 01/07/2022   4:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like I posted data from that email from Dick about the area near 46L3 here:

http://goscf.com/t/52774&whichpage=12#609559
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Posted 01/21/2022   10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the #7 below is position 14R3. As far as I know, the short "L", "M", and "N" ornaments are only found at this position on Plate 3. I might be wrong, but I eliminated 16L2, which has nearly identical short right side ornaments, because of the generalized ink film on my patient. There are lots of plate marks including a dot in "O" of ONE and some plate scratches in the lower right corner that would help in finding a match, but I can't find another example, and the Neinken map doesn't match at all.

Any help on this stamp would be greatly appreciated. I've taken several other photomicrographs and I'm happy to send them to anyone interested.

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Posted 01/21/2022   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Njs900 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great stamp Widglo but probably not 14R3.

The one good scan I have seen of 14R and the image in Neinken both show a clear break at R as does Dick's copy where I only have a low rez scan of his holdings of the entire right pane.

The good scan and Neinken both show the scratch in and down from the left plume. I cannot tell if your copy has that scratch.

My guess is that it is a position not shown in the book. If only Dick were here.
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Posted 01/22/2022   2:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Njs900 - Thanks for your input. I'm not satisfied with 14R3 either, but I'm at a loss for other possibilities.

Neinken has drawings of every "A" relief Plate 3 position except 31L3 and 97-99L3, all of which can be eliminated a possibility due to numerous plate cracks. I looked specifically for for weak "N" ornaments on all of the "A" relief Neinken maps for both Plate 2 and Plate 3. There are only a few, and Neiken failed to note it on 16L2, so perhaps he missed it on other positions, too.

I wish there were more high quality scans to look at, because I would at least like know if my stamp is indeed from Plate 3. It has both PSE and PF certs stating so, but that is only partially reassuring when I am reminded what Neinken wrote - "There is only one certain way to identify a stamp as being printed from Plate 3, and that is to definitely plate the position."
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Posted 01/23/2022   10:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
widglo, in general it is worth bearing in mind that over the past 50 years there has been a good deal of revising and updating done on Neinken's Plate 3 work, which has been published in the USPCS CHRONICLE.
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Posted 01/23/2022   7:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
dudley - I've read mention of updates in previous posts, but I haven't seen them summarized in one place. I did my own search of the Chronicle, and here are all of the updates to Neinken's 1 Franklin book that I could find:

Chronicle 78, 1973 Errata (Alexander)
Page 492, third paragraph, second line: the position referred to should be 74R12, not 72R12.
New position illustrated in 54L12.
Revised drawings or new plating marks on 4L5, 39R3, 40R3 and 90L5.
Chronicle 83, 1974 Corrections (Alexander)
New plating drawings of 68R4 and 7L7 (existing drawing of 68R4 may be 28R4)
Chronicle 86, 1975 Improved drawings (Alexander)
32R4, 34R4, 41R4, 42R4, 62R4 and 24R5
Chronicle 89, 1976 Errata (Alexander)
Position 25R4 designated type III instead of IIIa
Drawing added for position lOR12
Plating mark of note on position 46RlO with new diagram
Neither center line or arrows between lOLIO and lRlO
Chronicle 103, 1979 Addenda (Neinken)
Image of position 70R5 showing the beginning of the imprint.
Improved drawings of positions 20R5, 98R4 and 42R2.
Drawings of positions 20R12 and 55L12
Chronicle 110, 1981, Corrected reconstruction of top row of the left pane of plate 3 (Neinken, Cipolla)
Position shown in the Neinken book as 1L3 is actually 8L3
Position shown in the Neinken book as 2L3 is actually 9L3
New improved plating drawings 66-67R3.
Plating drawing of 40L3 added.
Revised drawing of 7R3.
Chronicle 207, 2005, Newly reported double transfer on 93R2 (Tocher)
Chronicle 208, 2005, Discussion of position 46L12 (Kunstreich, Celler)
Chronicle 227, 2010 Corrections to reconstruction of plate 3 (Celler)
Neinken 65R3 mat on page 254 should replace 42L3 on page 239.
Neinken 66R3 mat on page 254 should replace 43L3 on page 239.
Neinken 67R3 mat on page 254 should replace 44L3 on page 240.
New mat for 65R3.

If anyone knows of any other corrections or additions, please add them to this list.


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Posted 01/25/2022   10:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
widglo - that's a good list, thanks for putting that together. You got all of the ones that immediately came to my mind.
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