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Denmark Scott 597 & 598 , printed photogravure or offset ?

 
 
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/13/2017   10:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lithograving to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
After I made a reference to these two Danish stamps
in the Engraver's thread I noticed that whereas
Scott lists them printed Photogravure and Engraved
Michel 635 - 636 shows StTdr. und Odr. (Engraved & offset)

Denmark
Scott 597 - 598













On both stamps the orange yellow on the lilies and the
dark green area around the lilies is engraved.
The rest appears like photogravure but then again looking
at the edges and the name of the designer I see no
dots. Notice also the smeared areas on DENMARK.
So could it be litho/offset?

The yellowish diagonal grid around the edges is tagging,
glows very bright yellow on 598 but less so for 597.
Danish commemoratives for this time period have fluorescent yellow
glow all over not just around the edges which makes me doubt
they were printed by the Danish Printing Works at all.

I believe I read somewhere that all stamps for this Nordic Country Co-op joint
issue where printed in Finland for the five participating countries.

Notice also that there is no engravers name which is unusual
for danish stamps.
But then again there isn't much engraved on the stamps so maybe
nobody wanted any credit.




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Edited by lithograving - 03/21/2018 5:42 pm

Valued Member
United States
179 Posts
Posted 02/14/2017   6:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dlambert1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO, the first grouping, the "green" set, is almost certainly photogravure. I have convinced myself that one can see the cells.

The second grouping, the "blue" set, appears to be offset and with two radically different screens used to print the blue and the green. The white is a drop-out to the white paper beneath the ink layer.

Don
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/14/2017   9:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, thanks for your input.

I agree with you that the light green background of Scott 597 does appear to be screened which would indicate photogravure printing.

I took a couple of pics with my camera, slightly angled
to show the raised engraved areas of the orangy yellow lilies and dark green leaves.






The "screening" of the light green areas appear to
be an evenly spaced criss-cross grid compared to the multitude of
dots usually associated with photogravure printed stamps.


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Edited by lithograving - 03/21/2018 5:45 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
24532 Posts
Posted 02/14/2017   9:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

If Denmark produces a typical "Emmissions Bulletin" as other countries,
the process and paper should be attributed, and in depth.
Being 1977 one would expect such a bulletin.


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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/14/2017   10:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good point Rod.

I actually had a subscription with the Danish Post Office
for new issues between mid seventies to late eighties.

For the the first few years I did not receive any new issue
announcements.

It wasn't until the late eighties when they started mailing
their PFC-Journalen which was just about the time I stopped my
subscription with them.





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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
24532 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   01:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I may have jumped the gun,
I looked at my Aussie Bulletins, they were very basic back in 1980 ish.
Perhaps 1977 may be just a bit early for Denmark.
Good Luck.

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
664 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   1:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No photogravure used in the Denmark Post Office Printing house, it looks like a combined recess+offset-litho printing [or even direct plus indirect recess] made by Setelipaino, the Finnish stamp printing dept. of the Finnish Bank.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
664 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   1:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


In my "AFA Specialkatalog 1987-88" I found on page246 the answer to our questions.

As I had suspected recess+offset-litho printed in Finland.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
664 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   1:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This was not the first Danish stamp printed in Finland!







The method of printing in 1973 was a combination direct and indirect recess!
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   7:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod, over the years I received and kept most of the new issue bulletins,details, brochures or whatever they were called.
From Austria, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Greece, Norway and Sweden.
The Australian Philatelic Bulletins were the most informative
and interesting though.

Besides new issue info the Bulletin included details about printing techniques,quantities issued, designers,engravers and also articles about the various stamp design competitions held by the Australian Post Office.

Below is the cover page of oldest Philatelic Bulletin I have,
dated December 1971



Here is a page from the Sept 1974 issue showing examples of designs submitted to the 1955 design competition by the public for the 1956 Melbourne Olympics and post war immigration.



After the Philatelic Bulletin became the Stamp Bulletin it just reported new issues info.




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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   7:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rein/Galeoptix for that great information.
So the stamps were a combination recess & offset.

After examining my Swedish Norden stamps Scott 1193&1194
it appears the printing is the same as the Danish ones
therefore probably the same printer.

I know I have (somewhere) Swedish Information pages from the
mid seventies before they switched over to the Bulletin and
will see what type of printing.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
24532 Posts
Posted 02/15/2017   8:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks LG,
I don't recall having that issue, so that was a surprise,
I think I may have Vol#1 Number 1 somewhere in the boxes of stuff,
It was just a single folded page, if memory serves.

For the record modern Aust Bulletins are available free to download
and have all printing /paper info, I think.

I am about to ask SCF for ID on a Czech sheet
printed by NEOGRAFIA (1945)

I think you may like this.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAi1FZfLkhw
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Edited by rod222 - 02/15/2017 8:07 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/24/2017   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rod for the link, I love watching those printing presses
in action.


Here are the Swedish Norden stamps Scott 1193&1194 and they
are identical to the Danish ones as per print method.
Although they do not have the diagonal grid around the edges as found
on the Danish stamps.











I also located the information sheet for this issue.
The Sweden Post Office states that they were printed
by the Bank of Finland Security Printing House alright
but by direct & indirect recess not recess & offset as shown
in the AFA Specialkatalog 1987-88






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Edited by lithograving - 03/21/2018 7:13 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
664 Posts
Posted 02/25/2017   6:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Which means STIF as well!
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4419 Posts
Posted 02/25/2017   7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For members who are not acquainted with the acronym STIF
it stands for Société Technique d'Impressions Fiduciaires.
They are multicolour recess stamp printing presses which can
print multiple colours using one plate on a single pass.
Basically the same as the Giori process.
STIF presses are (were?) employed by the French State Printer,
Imprimerie du Timbre in Belgium and The Bank of Finland.

See previous posts on this forum

http://goscf.com/t/37831

http://goscf.com/t/9106&whichpage=114



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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
24532 Posts
Posted 02/25/2017   10:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That was a nice journey,
not sure I understood it all, nice to see it resolved.
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