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Hyderabad Stamps Perforation And I.d.

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/19/2017   11:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Rob Roy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello
Are these stamps with different perforation, or are they the same, one with very worn edges?
Thanks



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Edited by Rob Roy - 02/20/2017 01:42 am

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Posted 02/20/2017   12:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion:
1934 SGO46 Official stamps
Should be P13½
The "worn" as you refer to it, is generally understood as "rough perf"

2 types of this stamp, wove and laid paper.


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Edited by rod222 - 02/20/2017 12:15 am
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Posted 02/20/2017   12:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. All I could find was one date of issuing, 1934.
Do you think both were issued at the same time? Should they have the same catalogue numbers?

Regarding catalogues, I think I have another stamp from this series, but neither CatWiki nor Kolnekt mentions it. Any idea why?



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Posted 02/20/2017   06:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion.

The 4 pies only attracts 1 catalogue number in Gibbons.

Your 2 pies bistre-brown, is from 1949
Gibbons #60 (The parent stamp)

The Official opt is Gibbons # O55
which attracted a reasonable price in 1993

Your 2 pies is interesting
It was prepared by altering the printing plate of the 4 pies
that's why the "2" may look a tad wonky.
Printed Litho.

An Indian specialist may want to comment on the Official Overprint,
It looks suspect to me.
My guess: forged.

Shame about the Postmark, looks part REGIMENT




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Edited by rod222 - 02/20/2017 06:10 am
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Posted 02/20/2017   06:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well done you, for offering a Good, Pertinent thread title.

More reading under thread title ......."India?"

http://goscf.com/t/11121


Hyderabad Souvenir sheet. R.A.F. Postmarks.

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Edited by rod222 - 02/20/2017 06:23 am
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Posted 02/20/2017   11:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ROB and ROD --Those Indian State were forged by that famous forger in Mexico and I never seen a good or detail explaination of how to identify his work . He sold worldwide ,so they are everywhere.
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Posted 02/20/2017   11:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's very interesting, especially the alteration of the printing plate.
Is it regular that different perforation gets the same catalogue number?
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Posted 02/20/2017   12:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My guess is that this is a low value stamp and no reason to be forged , I would say a worker just put too many copies thru the perforater machine at the same time giving the ragged edges appearance on your copy .



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Posted 02/20/2017   3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it could be that,
also, as Tony mentioned in the other thread these were extensively used,
so they may have continued using the perforator when the pins became blunt.

A 600dpi scan will always show the pin status on ragged stamps.
(It is not a different perforation, just a quality issue)

Poor definition scans are the nemesis of accurate study.


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Edited by rod222 - 02/20/2017 3:37 pm
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Posted 02/20/2017   3:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Both are same stamps with perf. 13½. The left one comes from a sheet which was at the bottom of stack of stamp sheets fed into the perforatoring machine which resulted such ragged appearance of perfs but the lower left corner shows clear perfs.

These are Haydarabad 1934 Sarkari ovpt. on 1931 4P Sarkar I Asafiyyah gray black official stamp (SG O46).

The unoverprinted base stamp (SG 41) was issued on November 12,1931 as part of the Haydarabad Pictorial Series, printed on unwatermarked wove paper in recess by Stamp Office, Haydarabad which also struck the Sarkari overprint in Farsi in letterpress.

Vignette: It shows the Tugra emblem of Sarkar I Asafiyyah i.e. Government of Asaf Jah VII, the official titular name of Usman Ali Khan Siddiqi (1886–1967), the ruler of Haydarabad (1911–1948) and the inscription Nishan I Tappah i.e. Post Stamp written in Farsi below the Tugra.

The 1931 4P issue was printed from 10 different plates engraved by Thomas de la Rue and Company, London, England. The plates were were extensively used simultaneously. Thus by 1942, the plates got worn out which resulted stamps with lighter impression, especially the central Tugra design which then did not have the characteristic background mesh.

There were several printing of this 4P value as it was required to pay the postage for letters i.e. 8P for 11.66gm (1 tola) (May 6,1930– December 1943) and 1A4P (December 1943–October 1949) and also to pay the registration fee 2A4P (1935–43). So several color shades of black are found in these 4P stamps resulted from different ink batches having different tinge used in different printings.

Reference:
Haydarabad Philatelic History.
Muhammad Abd an Nayim Siddiqi.
Philatelic Congress of India, New Dilli 1980
Part III: Postage Stamps
Chapter 9(A): Postage Stamps; pp.185-92
Chapter 9(B): Sarkari (Official) Stamps; pp.213-7
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Posted 02/20/2017   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Funny you've mentioned Mexico, I was arranging new stamps I got from there, and so a similar situation.
So, either here the stamps got different cat numbers, or the post worker from Hyderabad immigrated to Mexico, or the forger did several countries to sell bundles of worldwide stamps.
The poor quality reminds me of the Nigerian forgery discussed earlier.



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Posted 02/20/2017   3:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Joy Daschaudhuri to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Printing of Haydarabad 1947 4P Sarkar I Asafiyyah gray black on laid paper stamp (SG 41a)

In 1947, due to the unavailability of adhesive wove paper following WW2, the 4P stamps were begun to be printed on available white laid paper which was originally meant for office stationeries, having Dastar I Mubarak of Nizam watermark.

Wartime watermark of Haydarabad stamps on laid paper



The 1947 4P unoverprinted stamps were printed on double foolscap sized (68.58cm×43.18cm) sheet of 100 (10×10) having 4 such watermarks placed 20.96cm apart horizontally and 34.3cm apart vertically.

The watermarks thus appears on 4 corner blocks of 20 stamps viz., R1-5/1-4(1-4, 11-14, 21-24, 31-34, 41-44) etc.
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Posted 02/20/2017   3:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Really enjoy reading your work, Joy, (and Tony's)
Fabulous stuff.


Quote:
Thus by 1942, the plates got worn out which resulted stamps with lighter impression, especially the central Tugra design which then did not have the characteristic background mesh.


From my collection: The 2 states

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Edited by rod222 - 02/20/2017 4:05 pm
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Posted 02/20/2017   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, Joy, very thorough information. I saw a site of Hyderabad, but nothing about stamps.
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Posted 02/20/2017   7:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That Hyderabad 2 Pies is quite OK. Here is a corner block of the same stamp:



I checked through my accumulation of Hyderabad overs, but couldn't find an example of the Service overprint; still, here is an example of the basic stamp, used - as as intended - to up-rate an existing postcard:



These stamps appeared in 1949, when the newly independent Indian government had taken over the administration of the former Hyderabad State.

I can't explain why they don't appear in online sources. Did you check for the 'Service' overprint?
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Posted 01/04/2021   1:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stamps4Life to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
so I have these Hyderabad SC 39's. 39a calls for Laid Paper. I dont think I've ever seen laid paper. The catalog says if one is to hold the stamp up to the light you can see parallel lines. Yes/no? Can you tell from a scan? I also included the single as the "hanging chads" looked to be interesting and looks to be overly different - different paper? Feels somewhat different too. Does anyone have an example of laid paper they can share? Tks


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