Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Medicine Revenue Experts -- What Have We Here?

Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 30 / Views: 4,168Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar Of The Community
United States
675 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are vintage and modern bottles of Lanman & Kemp Florida Water with the facsimile labels. I would guess the vintage to be early 1900s. I bought the modern about 10 years ago.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
675 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are examples of the facsimile label






Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by SPQR - 03/21/2017 8:10 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1736 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   8:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some more Kemp facsimiles.

Jim




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
29 Posts
Posted 03/28/2017   3:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add telchar to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link to a site that has some information about New York Pharmacal Association

http://www.rdhinstl.com/mm/rs187.htm
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1479 Posts
Posted 03/30/2017   2:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, telchar! That's a very educational website!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
852 Posts
Posted 03/30/2017   4:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a website created by Bob Hohertz (he's the "rdh"), president of the American Revenue Association.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8423 Posts
Posted 03/30/2017   6:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bob is a really nice man, I have spoken with him at a number of shows over the last few years.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1479 Posts
Posted 04/13/2017   12:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Oddly enough, I picked up a similar item over the weekend. This is an American Bank Note specimen for some sort of medicine(?) bottle. There's no date indicated, but I would guess 1870s. This would have been affixed to bottles of H.G. Hotchkiss' "International Prize Medal Essential Oils" (and large bottles at that, since this is about 11 inches long).

Would this qualify as a facsimile label? Anyone have some background on Hotchkiss?





Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
795 Posts
Posted 04/13/2017   06:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that this is a highly collectable piece. But let's explore the meaning of facsimile.

A great number of firms ordered private die stamps. Their motivation in most cases was to use these stamps to guard against others who wished to profit from their product. There were individuals who looked for the distinctive bottles in the land fills of the day, reproduced the contents and sold them, particularly in rural areas. The problem persists today. Asian firms imitate the products of Johnson & Johnson using J&J's Red Cross symbol to fool us, the consumers. I have spoken recently with a lawyer that worked with J&J to protect from those who were stealing their trademark Red Cross (which has been used since the nineteenth century when J&J signed an agreement with Clara Barton to use the Red Cross symbol). In the same way the private die stamps contained trademark symbols of the firms who ordered these special designs.The private die stamps functioned as the guarantee that the product was genuine. If someone wished to counterfeit the government stamps, they were not only violating the company's trademark, they were in violation of the law. The companies benefited from the efforts of the government fighting the counterfeiters. After the proprietary tax was rescinded in 1883, many of the companies created a near look alike to the private die proprietary tax stamps, a facsimile of the tax stamp.

Now to the case at hand. Hotchkiss did not have a private die stamp. So there is nothing to make a facsimile of. So these are not facsimiles.

However, these labels functioned as a means to protect their trademarked product. So such labels and bottle seals are certainly related to the facsimile labels in function. They just do not have a tax stamp that they are imitating (a facsimile).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1479 Posts
Posted 04/13/2017   12:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent explanation -- thank you. So companies used bank note engravings on labels for the same reasons as the government: to thwart counterfeiting.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1736 Posts
Posted 04/20/2017   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to be yet another variation of the Lanman and Kemp "eagle" vignette. In this case, the stamp doesn't look like it was trimmed from the ends of a larger label, but is a new type altogether.

I can't find any reference to "eacles best" anywhere on the Internet, other than as a misspelling for "eagles."

Or is the similarity of the design just a coincidence?

Jim



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
675 Posts
Posted 04/20/2017   11:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi James -
there were a number of companies that manufactured products that tried to imitate Lanman & Kemp's Florida Water. I have not seen that label, but my guess is that one of the imitators produced that label to imitate Lanman and Kemp's facsimile label.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1736 Posts
Posted 04/20/2017   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi

So... this is a facsimile of a facsimile then?



Jim
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
675 Posts
Posted 04/20/2017   11:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is my guess - I have no proof. I tried a quick google search and did not find anything.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8423 Posts
Posted 04/20/2017   4:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have never seen this one before either.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 30 / Views: 4,168Next Topic  
Previous Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.27 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05