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APS Arbitration/Litigation Re Donation

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1566 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   12:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For me a could care less about the $20,000. If you can read through this whole mess it is a power struggle and the $20,000 was used as a cog to get it off the ground. Go back read the posts they stand out very clearly. A good tactic take a issue that can win hearts. Attack then attack some more. Point out issues that in part do not relate to the $20,000. Talk about prior personal conflicts and how much you were the only one right.

I just have no and I mean none what so ever care about the $20,000. I might have in the beginning but I actually started reading and understanding each post. I mean if goes like this I was great had great ideas. They didn't like them so did something different. I gave money and wanted a show case for MY COLLECTION. MY COLLECTION is great look want I won I should be given a free pass for any show.

I'm just a stamp person, I don't play with the big boys and their private clubs. No one will ever know who I am and my collection will never grace an exhibited. I work hard on my collection, I share my knowledge but becasue I dont walk in those circles those posters.

Just forget it I'm a lot smarter and I darn well know what is going on and those that fall to the secondary issues well you all in you head can figure out what is going on. The only thing that will make that crowd happy is if they get control of the ASP.

As for Mr. Price if your not part of that and truly want your money back I hope you get it. If not then your part of it too.

Now that goes two ways I'm not going to say that @one people in the ASP are in the clear.

My solution none of these people belong anywhere near the leadership of the ASP. I'm still joining this week and who knows maybe they need some of us common people on the board that knows how to play nice.

Just shame how both sides are using Mr. Price and his $20,000. And even worse all of you can't figure this out. Just read folks.
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Pillar Of The Community
1515 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   06:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jenny2U to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if the APS has ever returned a donation after being requested to do so? Does anyone know? Being concerned about precedent is the only thing that makes any sense to me.
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Pillar Of The Community
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3051 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   07:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Politics has always been a factor in APS (the bylaws flap was a recent one) and while there is some openness there could be a lot more. It is inherent on most any organization. What I find interesting you have people who claim business experience, non-profit experience, military experience, members of non-profit boards, etc. running for the elected positions but you wonder. APS has a lot of challenges and does not need a passive board.
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Al
Pillar Of The Community
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United States
5205 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   08:42 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Posted on the other forum. On its face, this makes the issue pretty damned cut and dried, in my opinion. As of April 1, 2015, the APS formally (and legally) stated that the library WILL contain a rarities gallery and that Don's donation was being earmarked for that purpose. In my opinion, if plans changed and the library did not contain a rarities galley, the donation whould have been be returned. I don't see how the APS thinks they can (or more importantly why they SHOULD) get around this.

Why the APS is digging their heels in and refusing to simply return the donation is baffling.

Also shown are the original pledge cards which clearly indicate that the donation is for a specific purpose.







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Edited by revenuecollector - 09/06/2017 08:45 am
Valued Member
United States
456 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   09:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add joe1225us to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just to point out that on the 'other' board, it was stated that there are other donations in an escrow account. Perhaps APS feels if they give back this donation, all donors will ask for their donations back. Although the publicity this has attracted makes that eventuality much more likely, especially if Price prevails in court (which is VERY likely, given that three neutral arbitrators all ruled for him)
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Valued Member
United States
488 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   09:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hoosierboy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sad situation. If you find yourself at the bottom of a sink hole at least be smart enough not to keep digging deeper looking for the bottom. In most cases what you reach by digging deeper is a hole in the roof of a deeper unseen cavern that will swallow up both the digger and endanger those on the surface trying in good faith to preform the rescue.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1565 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   3:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hoosierboy makes a good comment. Being born & raised "hoosier" myself, such a name catches my eye. MK Farm continues to have the best thoughts. Power struggle indeed, especially when the "former community activist" gets involved (although I do like his scholarly articles appearing occasionally in Linn's).

I wonder why revenue collector saw a need to post pledge cards here. Those were already on the other site.

Angore wrote: "Climber Steve, you had an APS board member express concern about the negative publicity of the situation." Actually, I did not have anything. Such wording implies that I have some sort of ownership of the situation and controversy swirling around on the other SCF. I do not.
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5972 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The documents provided by revenue collector are most helpful. There are probably some stamp collectors here (like myself) who really don't feel the desire to visit the Delphi site.
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Pillar Of The Community
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3051 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   4:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Climber Steve, my comment was noting that more than one Board member was not aware of the details of the situation. One could argue whether or not the Board should have been better informed. I tend to like an active and inquisitive board. I heard about it at the APS town hall but no dollar value was mentioned.
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Al
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1566 Posts
Posted 09/06/2017   4:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Today I made my first visit to APS and became a member. It also put a lot into perspective on the subject of the rariety room. First you have to separate the current donation issue.i have views on that but you know what it's not my money so I don't care.

At issue is who's view of a rariety room is going to win. Today it was funny I was shown the rariety room. No I wasn't going there when they named the room. I went undecided to think for myself. I was surprised of course because of a one man's war over this room. I guess each person will forever define something to fit their objectives. The room fit my description of a start to a rariety room.

The is a large space and so much can be done with if. I just stood there with visions in my head. Then felt bad that some people had to make this an issue when things can be so great. I felt there was a lot of blame on both sides but that quickly disappeared when I start to see the possibilities it the current content and the size of the room.

In figure you can spend days, weeks and in some cases years hating other members or you would spend time working together to develop this room. I quickly knew this was bigger than me. I mean I have ideas amd others have ideas. At issues is briging the right people together who can weld these ideas together. I would like to be so much a part of this. Its history, its saving the past its building something special. It certianly not just one persons vision.

So what can I do? No I don't have the ability to make a large donation. But I can scrap something together for this. I don't even care how long it takes to get it done. I plan on seeing if I can add towards the financial part of this since I doubt I would get the opportunity to be on a committee to help.

So pardon me if I see around the other issues. I am far over my days of being a pain in the back side and instead learned how to actually work together and get things done.

I didn't get to meet Scott but maybe at another visit.
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Edited by mkfarm - 09/06/2017 5:06 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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3051 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   07:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mkfarm, I think the issue is that this should not be in court. It is a waste of time and money. No matter how it comes out APS will not have a better image to potential donors. It is a mostly lose lose situation. It seems at least one Board member with more information agrees. The test is for APS but turning out to be another petty squabble.
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Al
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1566 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   08:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't care about it. I don't have all the facts. I don't like how a former board member had a hidden agenda. I reserve the right to wait until this plays out instead of gathering like a lynch mob. I don't like how a moderator shares log on info that I consider private and not public.

In any event I have no problems for this to play out in court. That just might be a very good thing no matter which way it plays out. If things need changed then we know. If it is something else then we know.

So I can wait for the facts then we can go forward from there. At least the system is suppose to work like this when there is a disagreement.
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Valued Member
United States
260 Posts
Posted 09/18/2017   09:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DaveG28 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I read through the thread in question on the other forum, and it reminded me why I no longer participate over there. 3 reasons:
1. Too much APS. I'm not a member, and I really don't care much about all the Society's politics.
2. First day covers. I don't collect them or create them. That seems to be the main interest over there.
3. Personal attacks. Too much complaining, finger-pointing, and nastiness. Sure, it can be entertaining reading at times, but when it's turned on you for no reason...well, I didn't care much for being called "a parasite on the hobby" because I'm not a member of the APS. I'm not going to participate in a group when that kind of thing happens, and I immediately stopped interacting there and found my way here. It reminds me of an exchange I had with a member of the local stamp club in my town at their annual show a few years ago. As I was checking in, the old fellow at the desk asked me if I was a member of their club. "No, I'm not.", I said. "WELL, WHY NOT?", he practically shouted back at me. Um, gee...I can't quite put my finger on it, sir. lol
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Edited by DaveG28 - 09/18/2017 09:05 am
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Posted 09/18/2017   09:14 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sadly this isn't new. That forum has a longstanding problem allowing a single person, who admittedly is a brilliant philatelic scholar, but a contemptible human being, to run roughshod over the forum and bully people mercilessly. He can't simply disagree with people; rather he has to insult every aspect of their being and tear them down with insults and condescension.

For the brief period I was a moderator over there, I cannot count the number of behind-the-scenes discussions we had about it, and I deferred to the senior moderatorship, who basically decided it was easier to ignore than deal with the hard decision that should have been made regarding this person years ago.

I would regularly get emails from other members decrying the manner this person treated people, stating that person was a primary reason they did not publicly participate. The person in question rules the roost and drives people away left and right.

It's fundamentally wrong, but it's far too late to change now, especially given the leadership over there.

Sad.

Ahh well, you're far better off over here anyway...
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Edited by revenuecollector - 09/18/2017 09:14 am
Valued Member
United States
260 Posts
Posted 09/18/2017   09:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DaveG28 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I absolutely agree. I'm much happier here. Quite a sad state that the situation has been allowed to develop as it has. I've often wondered if that same person participates here as well, but I haven't seen any signs of that. When I joined up on that site, I was merely looking for information on new U.S. issues, and it fit the bill perfectly. I learned a lot, and posted often. That all went away with the changes that happen a few years back, and it never recovered. I still don't really understand what happened back then, and probably never will. This site has proven to be more informative and more friendly anyway, so it's all for the best, as far as I'm concerned. I've picked up on another forum recently. It seems friendly and informative enough, but I don't know yet if it's as active as this one.
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Edited by DaveG28 - 09/18/2017 09:42 am
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