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APS Arbitration/Litigation Re Donation

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Posted 09/19/2017   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This question was asked on the other board:


Quote:
It seems this forum is dwindling away. I used to log in and see multiple discussions going on at once, and new posts all the time. Now, it seems like a good day when there are a handful of new posts, even if the majority of them are USPS press releases or illustrations of new FD Cancels. What happened here?


and I responded with (in part):


Quote:
It's truly a shame that this particular board has become such a hostile environment, just because of one or two cantankerous, embittered bullies, who are, unfortunately, perpetuating the stereotype of the aged, anti-social stamp collector to the rest of society.


But I kind of like this a little better:


Quote:
That forum has a longstanding problem allowing a single person, who admittedly is a brilliant philatelic scholar, but a contemptible human being


Though I am glad I have not (so far) had any personal interaction to confirm this particular observation.

Jim
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Posted 09/19/2017   9:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The story of the donation does need to be told no matter the sender of the message.

I asked the question at the other forum if I gave a dealer money in escrow for a stamp to be provided, the dealer does not need to ever return the money.

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Al
Edited by angore - 09/19/2017 9:18 pm
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Posted 09/19/2017   9:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Why does it need to be told? Are people that bored? Personally every board member and for that fact donor and members are responsible for this mess. I have not heard of a donation policy from any board members. I have seen a scrap of paper but no signed agreement by the donor. Members now want to rise to the top of the hill. Lets burn the town and hang everyone. My question is where were you when if came to reviewing the donation policy. Oh wasn't important to you at the time. Believe me it will work out in court and guess what you all loose big time. In a way that may be a good thing.

In any event you may find this a good read.

https://michaelrosensays.wordpress....donors-gift/

What I have learned.

Old board members should fade away. However it may be more fun to stir the pot.

Organizations better have a clear donation policy. A lot of board members must have missed this for lets say 100 years.

Be an educated donor ask for an agreement. Doesn't really take a college education to know this.

People love to jump on a story. I really think people love the juice of a story, yeah I guess I'm part of that too.

The flamers. Those I can't stand.

Well enjoy the attached story and even a common person can figure out probably how this story will end. Then again stranger things do happen in our court system.
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Edited by mkfarm - 09/19/2017 9:57 pm
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Posted 09/23/2017   10:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, mkfarm, for presenting some more solid common sense. If people really "want the dirt," let them go to the other SCF. Keep this SCF dedicated to the fun of stamp collecting, and for building knowledge. I'm not advocating censorship. There is no censorship present if the other SCF already has a full range of blistering, and punishing, discussions going on.

angore: maybe the story needs to be told, and maybe there has been so much hype and hyperbole that people are turned off. You and I have both posted in the threads on the other SCF. Maybe we leave it at that?
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Posted 09/23/2017   11:24 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Steve,
As you know, the other forum suffered greatly when the Admin tried to control the postings. A large number of people left and have never gone back. This community welcomes all opinions but we do try to limit the drama. Some topics have drama built into them by their very nature; we certainly are not going to censor these as long the rules are followed.

APS threads sometimes have 'APS apologists' who think that anything negative should never be said. At other times they sometimes have 'APS haters' who think that APS can do no good at all. I think that common sense is somewhere in between.

APS has to be open to critical suggestions for improvement and strive for transparency. It also has to follow the laws and any good legal advice it receives. But I think that forums offer APS a chance at hearing input that they might otherwise not receive.
Don
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Posted 09/23/2017   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't quite agree with you, Don. The APS donation issue is a legal matter now before a court of law. Hence, so-called transparency should not apply here. But, the story is being told, as the donor and his main supporters try for summary judgement in the court of public opinion. I still think mkfarm provides the best course for this SCF, in his several posts on the topic.
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Posted 09/23/2017   7:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The decision to proceed to appeal the arbitration decision was made by APS. APS can drop this any time and I thought Ken was trying to get the board/membership motivated to end APS's activity and accept the arbitration. I doubt this will happen since politics and personal issues are at play. I do not think there should some gag order on any discussion as long as it complies with forum rules.
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Al
Edited by angore - 09/23/2017 7:53 pm
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Posted 10/05/2017   12:26 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If the current President leaves (see other thread) I wonder how this might/might not affect this issue.
Don
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Posted 10/05/2017   1:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would hope a "new" person is selected and get APS to end the lawsuit. It was not clear if the board actually voted on this or were they just briefed.
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Al
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Posted 10/13/2017   11:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This was posted on the other forum by Rich Drews who is on the APS board.

"Current APS Board members are working to make several changes in how donations are handled. The goal is to work out an amicable settlement with Don and to draw up a new set of guidelines for accepting and using donations."
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Al
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Posted 11/17/2017   4:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For those interested, APS returned the $20,000 to Don David Price plus $610+ in interest. APS did not continue to litigation.

I need to remind APS members your vote does count on who you select for the Board although we do not always get a lot of choices.
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Al
Edited by angore - 11/17/2017 4:34 pm
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Posted 11/17/2017   5:57 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So if we put aside the first several years this issue was stewing; what was the justification for keeping this issue open over the last 6 months with the horrible optics? This seems like a perfect situation to have made an immediate/quick decision and not let this damage the APS reputation for months. I do not understand this.
Don
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Posted 11/18/2017   07:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don,

From an outsider view, this seems to have been more a personal spat between between some very influential board members and the donor. The sad part is the rest of the board members did not recognize or act on this and force action sooner but this is often the case when political influence is involved. This is why one should never think a board will always do the right thing without external influence. There has been a history of lack of transparency but then most organizations have similar challenges since the justification is usually the same -- for the good of the organization.

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Al
Edited by angore - 11/18/2017 07:56 am
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Posted 11/18/2017   2:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Climber Steve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I'm sure the "bullies" on the other SCF, referenced as such by James Drummond on this SCF back in September, will be happy. As for me, I left that site couple months ago and deleted the bookmark on my system. The "bullies" can have it.
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