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Some More Precancels I Found

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Pillar Of The Community

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Posted 09/12/2017   06:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

here I show some stamps with (pre)cancels I find nice or interesting, especially the 2, 8 and 12 seem to be just different.

I don't need the type for each of them, only perhaps if you think it's a special one.

Following questions I have:

1, 6 and 10: No Bureau precancels?
5: Known error in the "N" of N.Y.?
7 and 8: No precancel at all?
13: CAMDEN NC.?
15: ZION CITY ILL.?




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2485 Posts
Posted 09/12/2017   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
10 is a bureau print - 1 & 6 not
5 is not considered an error, smudges happen
7 no, 8 yes Burlington VT
13 Camden NJ
15 yes, Zion City IL, PSS-455
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 09/12/2017   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you chasa, as always. So I though have two more questions about them:

15 - in the PSS PDF album, the ZION CITY doesn't exist for the PSS-455, only ZION - is this the same town and if yes, why is it named in different versions in the album?

8 - I didn't expect it being a known precancel, so then I it would be interesting to know the type here, probably a local one?

2 and 12 - also local precancels, right?
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Posted 09/12/2017   5:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Zion City - my mistake, it is L-4 HS.
8 is L-1 E, various size type was used in the device, but apparently there was only one device.
2 is Waterville ME L-3 M.
12 is Brockport NY L-4 TS.
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Posted 09/13/2017   11:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And thank you again, you just know the precancels.
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Posted 09/14/2017   3:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello chasa again - if you look once again in this thread, I have some more I now made a photo of.

As last time you don't need the effort to name all types for me, a bit research I can do, too...but with your eye for precancels you can perhaps give me a hint if you find anything special.

My questions would be:
1 - is this East Stroudsburg PA?
2 - is this Rochester NY?
5 - is this Garden City NY?
8 and 9 - the same type, only different inking? (but 14 is a different type for sure, as there are three lines?)
6 and 7 - looks also very similar, but a bit different?

I myself really like the font of 3, 4 and 7, as it's something new to me.

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Posted 09/29/2017   3:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some news here... In the meantime I have learned what good material the PSS has to offer and at last I learned to use it. I have looked at hundreds of precancels the past weeks and could identify nearly all of them. Still, I have some open questions, some related to the stamps already shown, this is why I continue this thread although I thought first to open a new one.

My first question would be: Are all known precancels listed in the PSS album (PDF) in its latest edition on the PSS website? I wonder as I don't find some types (see below).

I show the stamps here where I don't get correct results for the types.

Indianapolis: No precancel? (stamp is faded by the way)
Van Nuys: So the Bureau also printed "reading up" on a regular way in the later years?
Rutherford: I find no similar type at all.
Camden: Possible type is 712, but the caps aren't narrow and nearly 3mm.
3 Menasha stamps: Only one type seems possible, 712 for all of them, but the fonts seem different?
Chicago: Possible type is ST-2 and ST-6, but I find no type where the "ILLINOIS" is longer than "CHICAGO".
New York: Possible type is 203 or L-17 HS, but this one looks strange?
Philadelphia 11 cents: Don't find a similar type with length of "Philadelphia" of 15,5-16mm (L-45 HS?).
Philadelphia 12 cents: Possible 257, L-8 E or L-64 HS?
Philadelphia 5 cents: Possible 230, L-12 HS, but don't find the type for this lenght of "Philadelphia" of 16,5mm.
Seattle: Probably a 255, but what a nice missing ink area?

Don't worry, I know these are many questions and I don't expect to get all types out of the magic hat here. My main question is the one about the PSS album, and if really all type should be listed in the PSS album, I would have to examine those below closer, and maybe with a hint of someone of you.

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Edited by stamperix - 09/29/2017 3:12 pm
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Posted 09/29/2017   3:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 1 cent Ne York precancel. Here the mat was under inked, something that seems to happen a lot.
The Chicago was used by my former employer, Sears Roebuck & Co.
The Van Nuys is exactly like all the other Bureaus, the stamp is different in that it is "landscape" format.
The Seattle overprint is not missing ink but most likely a broken off letter.

Peter
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Posted 09/29/2017   4:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at the three Menasha overprints, I think they are all three the same. Just a very poor inking job with the overprint mats.

Peter
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Posted 10/02/2017   04:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Peter. Nice you found your former employer beneath my precancels :). About the "reading up" I meant the direction of the reading, not the direction of the precancel itself. I think at the beginning the bureau only printed reading down, but later it seems they changed the direction or allowed both of them. That was just a missing piece of knowledge for me, but not the most important one...

My main point with the last precancels shown above is why I don't find them in the PSS album, so if this is kind of a complete album or not, and how I could find then the type of those precancels (I don't find them in the catalogue either). But I guess it's quite a long list from my site here :).

---
(but the list is shorter after your answer, of course, I think Menasha, New York and Seattle is clear)
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Edited by stamperix - 10/02/2017 04:55 am
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Posted 10/02/2017   11:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamperix, I agree with your analysis of the Indianapolis cancel in your most recent photo posting, that it is not a precancel. Here is a similar impression on a wider stamp showing the vertical lines at left and right - confirming it is a parcel post roller cancel. Typically these cancels have 5 boxed town/state impressions around the circumference of the roller, so there will be some variation in the typesetting alignment among the 5 positions - and wear and cleanliness variations too.

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Posted 10/03/2017   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, John. Yes, the stamp you show has the same cancel type of Indianapolis as mine, so not a precancel. I guess all others are precancels.

To summarize a bit my many questions, as some have been answered now:
1. Rutherford and Camden: can't find any type for them?
2. The two serifed Philadelphia precancels: can't find any type with a correct (short) length of "Philadelphia"?
3. Chicago: can't find any similar type with "Illinois" longer than "Chicago"?

But perhaps not all types are listed by the PSS? (my main question at the beginning)
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Posted 10/03/2017   4:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Chicago is PSS 263
Rutherford is PSS 217
Camden is PSS 531
Phildelphia (#6) is PSS 44
Philadelphia (#7) is PSS L-12, although there are some other similar types

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Posted 10/03/2017   5:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hello chasa,

thank you again. I don't know why I was so wrong with my type guesses above. Sometimes it's hard to get a type when you don't have an example with the same town (=letters). But at least I learned better to use the nice PSS material.

I found all your types, and all are ok with my stamps, just:

One question would be left about the Philadelphia 11 cents (#7), as the town word is about 15,5mm - if we add something perhaps 16mm long, but surely not 17mm. So is the L-12 also for this length, or is there another L-precancel for a length about 15-16mm?

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Posted 10/09/2017   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello again,

I have just found another of this precancel type of Philadelphia, so I show it. In the second photo you can see the size of the town which is about 15.5mm. Isn't the L-12 saying 17mm? Also, note the small gap between "P" and "a" of "Pa." which is the same in both stamps, and - interesting coincidence - also the position of the precancel is exactly the same, very near the left side.

So is there another type possible with this typical gap?
Or is this not precancel at all?


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Posted 10/09/2017   3:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
sorry for my previous mis-information - these are PSS-230's
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