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What do you make of this amazing appearing 1861 3c  
 

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Valued Member
United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/12/2017   11:22 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
This stamp is blowing my mind. It was in an album in the wrong spot and the color is so strong and bright it seems to me it isn't a 65. I suppose I could have stumbled on a Lake, but that doesn't seem right either. The gum seems ok except some tiny spots where there was probably a hinge. I can't bring myself to call this a 65. I know evaluating color on the computer is impossible, but what do you think?



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Edited by rlsny - 09/12/2017 11:24 pm

Valued Member
United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/12/2017   11:32 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Let me clarify - it isn't a 66 Lake. But it is darker in color than I've seen on a 65. My concern is that maybe it's something else - like a perf'd, gummed essay or proof.
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United States
4207 Posts
Posted 09/12/2017   11:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The impression appears much too sharp to be a stamp. Proof seems likely.
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United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   12:16 am  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Right, but of the 65 proofs listed in Scott there is only one listed as on stamp paper (the paper looks exactly like typical stamp paper for this issue - same through light, same texture, feel, sound as other 65s). The one proof is 65P5 which is only listed as a pair in Scott and for a very high cat so that seem doubtful. I also don't see any essays with this design on stamp paper. I'm really at a loss for this. It could just be an amazing 65, but I'm still searching.
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Australia
448 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   02:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Lawrence Vassallo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It Looks very pink to me, a deep pink, 64B?
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United States
1334 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   05:53 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not saying there is something wrong at top and bottom but the side perfs look absolutely genuine. I think you have a nicely printed stamp from late '61 to early '62.

Scanning this stamp with other 65's would be helpful.

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464 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   07:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This link to James Lee's page for Trial Color 65's may be helpful.

http://www.jameslee.com/1861-3centessays.htm

The color seems to not match 56 but there are several shades that come close in Siegel's sales records.

Beautiful in any case.
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United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   2:13 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scanning a few gave me some fun this afternoon. Note it can't be a 56 since the design is different on that stamp.

So here are a few 65s for comparison. The stamp in question is on top. The stamp at the far right is a certified 66 (reperfed on right). The one next to it is an OG stamp I bought from Kelleher for my own collection. The left one is worth exploring too, but I'm assuming the rest are 65s.

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Posted 09/13/2017   2:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampmaster to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi rlsny, I think your original posting is a very attractive stamp!

Stampmaster
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United States
71 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dry Tech to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow Risny - Whatever your stamp turns out to be it really is beautiful.

For that reason I've been following this post with interest.

Does anyone know why scot 66 was left out of the 2014 U.S. Specialized catalog? That is the only catalog I have.

Dave
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United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   3:29 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They renumbered it. It is now considered a trial color proof - 66TC6
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United States
306 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   10:56 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So after a good amount of searching I think the correct description of this color is "rose lake". I've seen a few specimen stamps with that color and they seem to be a very close match. Also looking at the photo I uploaded earlier with multiple stamps it does look like it is between the OG 65 Rose and the 66 Lake. So Rose Lake it is.

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United States
707 Posts
Posted 09/13/2017   11:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I like your decision of rose lake. I think that makes sense based on how it shows up on my computer. Regardless it is a gorgeous stamp. The impression is fabulous
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United States
106 Posts
Posted 09/14/2017   12:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Douglas Andrew Willinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny- That is truly a fantastic stamp. My guess is that it is what the manufacturers strove for, yet often fell short with the varying qualities of the inks used.

It is similar to the 65SB, which I consider a "blueprinted" stamp, akin to the 78SB which is likewise of superior color quality than the mass produced stamp.

I wonder if yours is a type SB that is missing the overprint? No such thing appears in the catalogs, however there were some "sample" printings cir 1889 that exist as non overprints; likewise with the 1 cent and 2 cent State Department specimens, which are recognizable by their color.

Here's a partial page of 65s that includes an 65SB as well as a few trial color printings at the top and top right.

Cheers!

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Posted 09/14/2017   1:14 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I started communicating with Jack Daley about the idea of resurrecting his original ‘Collecting Shades of the 3 Cent 1861' site. I developed this as a starting point (but never published it) http://www.stampsmarter.com/Learnin..._Colors.html and was seeking Jack's help in getting the images and info flushed out.

But the more I worked on this the more I realized that trying display color information was tilting at windmills. I was dealing with disparate image sources and Lord knows what kind of post scanning image processing but it was even worse than that. Let's say we were all in a room with a 100% accurate color chart in hand. 10 of us look at it and only a few of us would agree on the colors we are seeing. It is well established that women, for example, see colors better then men (they physically have more cones in their eye then men). So do we discount the men's opinions? Wait, if we walk the color chart outside with it in indirect sunlight everyone now sees different colors. We all know that color is a function of light reflection so defining the ambient light is critical when discussing colors. And now add more technology layers like scanners and displays?

Geez, I gave up on chasing the 3 Cent 1861 colors down and most all other efforts to post accurate color images.
Don
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United States
106 Posts
Posted 09/14/2017   1:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Douglas Andrew Willinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
True, which is why it is important to see more scans of *different shades together* as I have done so here, as well as with the 24 cent 1861+ an another stamp collecting board about 5 years ago.
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