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Question Regarding Japan Wavy Line Postmarks

 
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Pillar Of The Community

United States
1337 Posts
Posted 09/16/2017   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Trainwreck to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have a lot of Japan commemoratives that have been cancelled by a generic wavy line postmark like those pictured below. The stamps cancelled like this all came from a packet purchased some time in the 1980s. The simplistic style of the cancel has caused me to question them.



My question: Have these stamps seen postal duty, or are they some sort of CTO, created for the stamp packet trade?

I have the same question with regard to the stamp in the lower right corner. Quite a few stamps from that same packet have that long, narrow boxy cancel.

All responses will be greatly appreciated.

Robert
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7039 Posts
Posted 09/16/2017   1:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Robert, what does the back of these look like? Do they still have gum?

Peter
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Australia
30250 Posts
Posted 09/16/2017   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Without confirmation, I have always took these (both the wavy line and the box cancel) to be genuine "roller cancels" perhaps for parcel work.

The box cancel is very common on cover fragments I have.

The wavy may just be a "remainders" device.
The picture below suggests machine application, seems too uniform for hand held device.



Genuine "roller cancel" on fragment.



and again...........

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Edited by rod222 - 09/16/2017 5:37 pm
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
2789 Posts
Posted 09/16/2017   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Japanese Roller cancel list:
http://www.isjp.org/sg-fm-postmarks
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Australia
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Posted 09/16/2017   6:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Nice link Perf12 ! Thanks.
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Posted 09/16/2017   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1337 Posts
Posted 09/16/2017   8:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for all the responses.

The stamps I have do not have gum, but look too "nice" to have gone through the mails (no scuffs or creases, bent perfs, etc.), in spite of the wavy line cancel.

Robert
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Valued Member
Japan
236 Posts
Posted 10/08/2017   03:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add unechan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,

The wavy line cancellations shown are cancellations for postpaid mail (described as "Cancellations for Postpaid Mail (JCP)" in "Handbook of Japanese Postmarks", JPS, 2008, pp.172-173). These cancels are for obliterating stamps used for payment of postpaid mail fee; the stamps are usually affixed onto a paper in full sheet, so these cancels (roller type) were introduced to quickly (and effectively) obliterate the stamps. The 3 yen sheet shown by rod222 is a very nice example of such usage.

There are several types, including

1) wavy lines only (1963-1979)
2) wavy lines with P.O. name (1979-1985),
3) line with P.O. name and date (1985-) and
4) machine wave cancel (wavy lines + P.O. + date) (1987-) .

Trainwreck's observation that the stamps look too "nice" is correct; they didn't go through the mail delivery system.

I have identified several type 2 (i.e. with P.O. name inscriptions) in your uploaded stamps;



As for the "remainders", I believe they do not exist in Japanese postal system, so if you run into a large block or sheet with the wavy lines, they're definitely for the postpaid mail payments.

Hope this helps.

- unechan
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Edited by unechan - 10/08/2017 05:17 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Posted 10/08/2017   09:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Trainwreck to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it does help tremendously.

Thank you.

Robert
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Posted 10/08/2017   1:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you Unechan for clarification. Saved.
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New Member
Germany
3 Posts
Posted 09/24/2020   4:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ligneN to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The bottom right corner 50y stamp has a "roller" marking. Introduced for mail matters with uneven surface or mass frankings in 1911. Its a fully valid postmark used until today.

The rest are markings for postage-fee paid process used 1963/2000s.

If a customer wanted to post bulk mails, he pasted stamps in the amount due (inc. full sheets) on paper and gave it as payment to the counter clerk.

The bulk mails received a printed or postmark handstamp "postage fee separately paid". The "separate" mens, on the large paper pieces.


The clerk had a convenient wavy metal marking (later includind p.o. name) to cancel full sheet of paper with affixed stamps. Later on, the markings were made with a machine and were just vertical broken lines plus p.o. name.

The sheets were added to the form for bulk mails and got deleted after a certains required storage period. Usually, they went into the official kiloware.

Later in the 2000s, the full pages were no more postmarked, but just put into a paper shredder. The procedure was cancelled by Dec. 31, 2018 and stamps are no more accepted for this kind of bulk mails.

So, these markings are not CTO,but the contrary: bulk mail process postmarks, absolutely commercial.
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Edited by ligneN - 09/24/2020 4:08 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4979 Posts
Posted 09/25/2020   08:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I remember buying those Japanese Kiloware boxes thru Linn's Stamp News for $12.00 . They were all on paper and it was full and 1/2 sheets all with those with wavey lines ,thousands of stamps per box ,full lot but many dozens of the same stamp . They came from Vancouver Canada from a very popular mail order firm who sold all kinds of on paper offerings .
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