Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

France 1966 Coat of arms Saint-Lô  
 

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

Your sixth stamp should have the following screen specs:

- blue 7 dots/mm horizontal and 8 dots vertical
- red 8 dots/mm vertical
- silver and gold R80 [or 5.5 dots/mm hor.vert.]

Gruss, Rein
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The various cylinders so far recognised in terms of screens:

- blue 6.5 dots/mm horizontally, 9 dots/mm vertically - is the one from the private industry and has ALL stamp images exactly the same as screen dot arrangement!

In combination with red horizontal rhomboids that count 8 dots vertically and:
- silver dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees; gold R80 [cross screen]
- silver dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees; gold R70 [cross screen]
- silver dot arrangment under +40 and -40 degrees [rhomboids]; gold R70 [cross screen]; 1 copy found

The first 2 combinations found both without phosphor bars [1966-1971] or with phosphor bars [1971-1972].

A fourth combination of this blue with red rhomboids that count 6 dots vertically so far only was found in combination with both silver and gold have a dot arrangment under +40 and -40 degrees [horizontal rhomboids]. Among them a date of November 1973 plus a plate flaw that Marion assigns to blue cylinder "k". Cylinder "k" was dominant in the February 1971-June 1972 period. According to Pierre Marion only red cylinders "E" and "F" were used inthat period and both were supposed to have come from the private industry!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 07:16 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the period in which supposedly all cylinder were prepared in Périgueux AND all stamps have phosphor bars, we find 3 types of blue:

- 7 dots/mm hor. and 8 dots/mm vert.; red 8 dots/mm vert.; silver R80, gold both R80 and R70,
- 8 dots/mm hor. and 7 dots/mm vert.; red both 8 dots/mm and 6 dots/mm vert.; silver and gold R80,
- 9 dots/mm both hor. and vert. [R125]; red 8 dots/mm vert.; gold R80 but for silver we got 3 versions:
-- dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees,
-- R80,
-- R100.

The +50/-30 version is most likely an old cylinder coming from the private industry!

Pierre Marion does not give any information about the silver and gold cylinders!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 07:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Isolated uses of cylinders provided by the private industry in the late 1973-1978 period occur according to Pierre Marion in the printings of:

- red "E" combined with blue "k" in June/July 1976; blue "l" February 1976, June 1976; blue "p" in January/February 1976 and July 1976,
- blue "k" also combined with red "J" in March 1977.

Red "E" being the cylinder with 6 dots/mm vertically?!?!?!?!?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 08:52 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4124 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And did you see any of the 6 blue extra dots?


Rein

There are no extra dots on my copies.

Thank you for all that analysis of my copies
but my understanding of 8 dots/mm vert or
R70[could be R80 with 5.5dots] or under +50 and -30 degrees
etc etc is very limited but I really admire
all the work you do in this field.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

silver under +50/-30:



See the green lines!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Corner date block of 4 with 24.2.71:



has blue 6.5/9; red 8/vert. [according to Pierre Marion red cylinder "E" plus blue cylinder "k"]; silver +50/-30 and gold R70!





The 7th printing:





Cylinder "E" has the red cylinder with 8 dots/mm vertically which is proof that I was WRONG earlier on today!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 12:24 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   12:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The blue dot between "o" and "s' in sheet-position 90 is the characteristic of the blue cylinder "k"

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/05/2017   07:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply




The "l" blue cylinder with 8/7 dots/mm hor./vert. is a new cylinder made by the printers themselves according to Pierre Marion that has different screen dots arrangements per stamp.

The gold and silver cylinders have a -40/+40 degrees [rhombic] screen:







The "F" red cylinder has 6 dots vertically. Compare the blue dots [7/mm] with the red dots [6/mm] along the vertical lines!

Per stamp position different screening:

















Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/05/2017 12:51 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Getting more and more material of French stamps in photogravure in that period it leads me to the preliminary conclusion that the French specialsits - Pierre MArion in his booklet - was WRONG.

His assumption that he could split up in the printings of the 20c Saint-Lo in two groups- cylinder made by the private industry and those made by the Printing house itself was not wrong, it was just that his kriteria were false:

- the change in position of the red registration bar from next to stamp 70 to stamp 10 has nothing to do with his assumption;
- there not just the red cylinders should be grouped differently but also the blue cylinders.

The 1967 Grenoble sheet has the bar next to 35 [turn the sheet 90 degrees anti-clock-wise]:



The 1969 Floralies sheet has the bar next to 5 [turn the sheet upside down]:



Both stamps issued BEFORE the move to Perigueux and WITHIN the "private industry" period .............

This would mean that ALL cylinders with a rhombic [losange] arrangement of the screen dots belong to the "private industry" and that ONLY in 1975 the first Perigueux made cylinders came into use ... That is, the red J and K cylinders and the blue P,Q and R cylinders.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/19/2017 07:45 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at some commemoratives we will see strange screens!







Yellow and brown have alternately smaller and larger dots!





Magenta has alternately smaller and larger dots!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/19/2017 07:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



The orange colour does NOT have a traditional cross-screen that comes from a glass screenplate!

The dots are autotypical i.e. surface-variable!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 1971 Chameleon sheet has the bar next to 5:



All WITHIN the "private industry" period .............


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/20/2017 04:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4124 Posts
Posted 10/20/2017   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The orange colour does NOT have a traditional cross-screen that comes from a glass screenplate!

The dots are autotypical i.e. surface-variable!


Rein

Could you elaborate a bit on what you stated above.

And thanks again for the effort you put into studying
all these various printing techniques.
I also appreciate the fact that your posts are usually
well illustrated.Showing lots of images helps in understanding
complicated details.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
567 Posts
Posted 10/22/2017   04:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

I meant the smaller, round prange dots at the bottom of the stamp; I should show a similar stamp with regular round dots at the edge. At may happen that I was too keen on finding Klischograph-made cylinders ... ;)

Another aspect in the images of the sheets is that both HEL-1 and HEL-2 sheets have the direction of paper [and printing] parallel to the sohrt side of the stamp...
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Galeoptix - 10/22/2017 04:03 am
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Finally Completed My Basic Admirals Page
  One very confusing certificate description
  1c 1851 Plate 2 Stamps
  Portugal value Error??
  Is There Anything Notable About This Check Dated Sep 6, 1930 Other Than It's Age?
  Moroccan Locals and Maghzan Cachets
  Danish West Indies Christmas Seals
  A little bit of not seeing the forest for the trees, perhaps?
  Needing some help with Cancel on O49 Stamp
  Need Information about flag cancellation
  Guatemala- color variation or ??
  Found on the back of a 1941 Deutsches Reich cover...
  Error on "ENIGMA, GA" Precancel
  FS: 2017 Scott US Specialized Catalogue Lightly used $45 - shipping included
  I need help identifying this stamp and any history on it.
  Postcard Question - Are Unused Postcards of Any Philatelic Value?
  Japanese Almanac without revenue stamp circa 1900's?
  Victoria 1862/5: 2/- blue on greenish paper without wmk?
  Inheretied stamp collection, video via YouTube
  Help to identify a King George imperf stamp
  Victoria 1878 - is this the 1/2d pink?
  Inheretied stamp collection
  My Website Has Launched
  Porto Rico narcotic stamps?
  War tax stamps with perfins

  Show us your Turkey's on stamps
  Green Stamps
  Finally Completed My Basic Admirals Page
  One very confusing certificate description
  Postcard Question - Are Unused Postcards of Any Philatelic Value?
  Need Information about flag cancellation
  Portugal value Error??
  1c 1851 Plate 2 Stamps
  Any speculation on 2018 issues?
  Victoria 1862/5: 2/- blue on greenish paper without wmk?
  War tax stamps with perfins
  Is There Anything Notable About This Check Dated Sep 6, 1930 Other Than It's Age?
  What Was in YOUR Mailbox Today??
  German Documents Reunited with Owner
  Sc 19 Cartier - I do not see any re-entries ??
  Monaco - Large Numeral Lozenge cancel 2387
  Food on Stamps!
  The Stamps of Turkey : On Steiner Pages.
  The Stamps of Australia : On Steiner Pages.
  Austria : Stamps on Steiner pages.
  What Did You Do Philatelically: Today or Recently?
  Turkish, Arabic? Envelope with printed stamp in the middle?
  Moroccan Locals and Maghzan Cachets
  More Cats on Stamps
  A little bit of not seeing the forest for the trees, perhaps?

Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.84 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05