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France 1966 Coat of arms Saint-Lô  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

Your sixth stamp should have the following screen specs:

- blue 7 dots/mm horizontal and 8 dots vertical
- red 8 dots/mm vertical
- silver and gold R80 [or 5.5 dots/mm hor.vert.]

Gruss, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The various cylinders so far recognised in terms of screens:

- blue 6.5 dots/mm horizontally, 9 dots/mm vertically - is the one from the private industry and has ALL stamp images exactly the same as screen dot arrangement!

In combination with red horizontal rhomboids that count 8 dots vertically and:
- silver dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees; gold R80 [cross screen]
- silver dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees; gold R70 [cross screen]
- silver dot arrangment under +40 and -40 degrees [rhomboids]; gold R70 [cross screen]; 1 copy found

The first 2 combinations found both without phosphor bars [1966-1971] or with phosphor bars [1971-1972].

A fourth combination of this blue with red rhomboids that count 6 dots vertically so far only was found in combination with both silver and gold have a dot arrangment under +40 and -40 degrees [horizontal rhomboids]. Among them a date of November 1973 plus a plate flaw that Marion assigns to blue cylinder "k". Cylinder "k" was dominant in the February 1971-June 1972 period. According to Pierre Marion only red cylinders "E" and "F" were used inthat period and both were supposed to have come from the private industry!
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 07:16 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the period in which supposedly all cylinder were prepared in Périgueux AND all stamps have phosphor bars, we find 3 types of blue:

- 7 dots/mm hor. and 8 dots/mm vert.; red 8 dots/mm vert.; silver R80, gold both R80 and R70,
- 8 dots/mm hor. and 7 dots/mm vert.; red both 8 dots/mm and 6 dots/mm vert.; silver and gold R80,
- 9 dots/mm both hor. and vert. [R125]; red 8 dots/mm vert.; gold R80 but for silver we got 3 versions:
-- dot arrangment under +50 and -30 degrees,
-- R80,
-- R100.

The +50/-30 version is most likely an old cylinder coming from the private industry!

Pierre Marion does not give any information about the silver and gold cylinders!
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 07:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   07:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Isolated uses of cylinders provided by the private industry in the late 1973-1978 period occur according to Pierre Marion in the printings of:

- red "E" combined with blue "k" in June/July 1976; blue "l" February 1976, June 1976; blue "p" in January/February 1976 and July 1976,
- blue "k" also combined with red "J" in March 1977.

Red "E" being the cylinder with 6 dots/mm vertically?!?!?!?!?
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 08:52 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4382 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   11:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And did you see any of the 6 blue extra dots?


Rein

There are no extra dots on my copies.

Thank you for all that analysis of my copies
but my understanding of 8 dots/mm vert or
R70[could be R80 with 5.5dots] or under +50 and -30 degrees
etc etc is very limited but I really admire
all the work you do in this field.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   11:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

silver under +50/-30:



See the green lines!
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Corner date block of 4 with 24.2.71:



has blue 6.5/9; red 8/vert. [according to Pierre Marion red cylinder "E" plus blue cylinder "k"]; silver +50/-30 and gold R70!





The 7th printing:





Cylinder "E" has the red cylinder with 8 dots/mm vertically which is proof that I was WRONG earlier on today!
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/04/2017 12:24 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/04/2017   12:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The blue dot between "o" and "s' in sheet-position 90 is the characteristic of the blue cylinder "k"

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/05/2017   07:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply




The "l" blue cylinder with 8/7 dots/mm hor./vert. is a new cylinder made by the printers themselves according to Pierre Marion that has different screen dots arrangements per stamp.

The gold and silver cylinders have a -40/+40 degrees [rhombic] screen:







The "F" red cylinder has 6 dots vertically. Compare the blue dots [7/mm] with the red dots [6/mm] along the vertical lines!

Per stamp position different screening:

















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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/05/2017 12:51 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Getting more and more material of French stamps in photogravure in that period it leads me to the preliminary conclusion that the French specialsits - Pierre MArion in his booklet - was WRONG.

His assumption that he could split up in the printings of the 20c Saint-Lo in two groups- cylinder made by the private industry and those made by the Printing house itself was not wrong, it was just that his kriteria were false:

- the change in position of the red registration bar from next to stamp 70 to stamp 10 has nothing to do with his assumption;
- there not just the red cylinders should be grouped differently but also the blue cylinders.

The 1967 Grenoble sheet has the bar next to 35 [turn the sheet 90 degrees anti-clock-wise]:



The 1969 Floralies sheet has the bar next to 5 [turn the sheet upside down]:



Both stamps issued BEFORE the move to Perigueux and WITHIN the "private industry" period .............

This would mean that ALL cylinders with a rhombic [losange] arrangement of the screen dots belong to the "private industry" and that ONLY in 1975 the first Perigueux made cylinders came into use ... That is, the red J and K cylinders and the blue P,Q and R cylinders.
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/19/2017 07:45 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at some commemoratives we will see strange screens!







Yellow and brown have alternately smaller and larger dots!





Magenta has alternately smaller and larger dots!
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/19/2017 07:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply



The orange colour does NOT have a traditional cross-screen that comes from a glass screenplate!

The dots are autotypical i.e. surface-variable!
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/19/2017   07:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 1971 Chameleon sheet has the bar next to 5:



All WITHIN the "private industry" period .............


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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/20/2017 04:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4382 Posts
Posted 10/20/2017   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The orange colour does NOT have a traditional cross-screen that comes from a glass screenplate!

The dots are autotypical i.e. surface-variable!


Rein

Could you elaborate a bit on what you stated above.

And thanks again for the effort you put into studying
all these various printing techniques.
I also appreciate the fact that your posts are usually
well illustrated.Showing lots of images helps in understanding
complicated details.

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
652 Posts
Posted 10/22/2017   04:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Martin,

I meant the smaller, round prange dots at the bottom of the stamp; I should show a similar stamp with regular round dots at the edge. At may happen that I was too keen on finding Klischograph-made cylinders ... ;)

Another aspect in the images of the sheets is that both HEL-1 and HEL-2 sheets have the direction of paper [and printing] parallel to the sohrt side of the stamp...
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Edited by Galeoptix - 10/22/2017 04:03 am
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