Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

U.S. Kiusalas Gauge 11-73  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
2740 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   09:21 am  Show Profile Check jogil's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add jogil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
There are several opinions on this specific Kiusalas U.S. 11-73 (10.79) gauge of perforation. One is that it does not exist but was used for fake perfs. Another is that it is actually 11-72.5 such as found on U.S. Scott 542 (10 x 11) for its vertical perf. 11 (10.86). Any opinions?
Send note to Staff
Edited by jogil - 01/11/2018 09:22 am

Pillar Of The Community
Germany
828 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   10:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I looked a nice 542 and some of the perf 11 regular issue, and the have the same perforation at the sides, which fits perfect to perf 11 - Kiusalas's gauge: 11-72 and none of them fits to 11-73. They all also fit better 11.0 than 10.9.

I also read that there is something wrong with the 11-73 on the gauge, something about the 544 and fake perforations.

---
this would be an interesting article, but I can't get:
Michael Laurence: "Reperforating tools match Kiusalas gauge settings", Linn's stamp news July 2, 2001
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamperix - 01/11/2018 10:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
2740 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   10:15 am  Show Profile Check jogil's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamperix: Do you mean the following that may relate to the newspaper article that you refer to?:

"Just for example, as part of our tool inventory, we have a set of custom designed and manufactured perforation dies consisting of 44 dies of varying spacing and an accompanying set of 22 hole punches. The perforation dies are manufactured in varying sizes starting with dies for a perforation of '7' (spacing of 0.1125 inches or 2.856mm) up to a perforation '16' (spacing of 0.0492 inches or 1.250mm). Our set of dies includes all dies as referred to by the Kiusalas USA and Canada Specialist Gauges. Sizes for our punches start at .023 inches (.711mm) in diameter up to .046 inches (1.168mm) in diameter in .001 inch (.025mm) increments." (Reference http://home.golden.net/~hanssitt/SR...ome.html#How )

While these dies may duplicate both the perforation gauge and the size of the perforation holes, they appear to be done using the stroke flat bar method rather than the rotary wheel method which was the original manner in which most of these perforations were done. This difference allows experts to tell these perforations apart.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 01/11/2018 10:43 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
970 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   11:39 am  Show Profile Check cfrphoto's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please read my post with the excerpt from the USSS "The United States Specialist" and checkout the full article:

Volume: 57 Number: 10 Year: 1986 Specialist: 680 Article: Washington-Franklin Head Issues - Perforation Measurement and Scott #544 Author(s): Larry S. Weiss

Scott 544 and 596 are believed to be rotary press sheet waste perforated on 11-72 flat plate perforators. But, Kiusalas believed that the rare perf 11 rotary press sheet stamps were from perforating experiments.

Please keep in mind that the rotary press perforators used a bar perforator for horizontal rows and conventional perforation wheels for vertical rows. The diameter of the rotary press perforating wheels differed from flat plate perforators. Spacing was determined by the number of pins equally spaced on the perforating wheel. The bar perforator, on the other hand consisted of bars with pins equally spaced around a cylinder. Spacing was not as constrained. Some coils do not seem to be exactly 10-80, perhaps motivating Kiusalas to postulate a 10-81 spacing. I believe that three hole sizes have been observed, if not fully documented. Originally, pins for perf 10 were to have been 0.0465" in diameter. A few Washington-Franklin coils with large holes exist, suggesting that these pins were used initially. The larger hole may have resulted in too many coil breaks and the pin size was changed to 0.042", the hole size seen on the majority of Stickney Rotary Press coils. Perf hole diameter for horizontal perf 11-70 used on perf 11 x 10 1/2 sheet stamps appears to about 0.037", the same size used on the new rotary press coil perforators associated with the Cottrell press and dry printings. However, it appears that the smaller pins may have been used at times on the Stickney Rotary Press coil perforators.

At this point, I haven't done enough hole size measurements of rotary press sheet stamps, but this explanation, if correct, is the simplest.

The other US Specialist reference is

Volume: 63 Number: 4 Year: 1992 Specialist: 746 Article: The Stickney Rotary 11 x 10 1/2 Bar and Wheel Perforator Author(s): Louis Repeta

If 11-73 exists, it was either because some wheels were produced with one fewer pin around the circumference or bar pin spacing could have subtly changed.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by cfrphoto - 01/11/2018 11:41 am
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
828 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here an article (page 2 and 4) about the 11-73 and Kiusalas' possible reasons for it.
http://www.bnaps.org/hhl/newsletter...-08-w004.pdf
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
927 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's one that's a conundrum that may fit here. Got it off eBay a couple of weeks ago. At first I though it would be a #448 with a late use; but when I counted the perf. holes (complete holes) falling between the design borders on the sellers scan, I counted 10 holes. For a perf. 10, it should be 9 holes, so that would indicate its a perf. 11 (horizontally) verticle coil Washington. There are no perf. 11 Washington coils. When I got it in hand, I checked it with a standard perf. gauge and it didn't quit fit a 10, 10.5. or 11. When I checked it with the Kiusalas gauge on the Sonic Imagery Multi-gauge, it measure exactly 11-73. This measurement and the late date of cancel seems to suggest that it is a faked coil; but its puzzling why it gauges 11-73? Design measures 19mmx22mm. Straight edge to straight edge 21.5mm



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
828 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   03:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am not the expert for telling if it's fake or not, but I would rather use a template of a similar stamp than using the gauge first. Maybe you could make a scan of this and other 1-Cents in one scan and then you can look at the perforations and compare.

I asked in another thread whether I am correct to use the normal 10.5 on a standard gauge to "calibrate" the 10.5-75 on any newer "Kiusalas" gauge, like on the US Multigauge, I guess it's possible. So you could compare some of your standard gauges 10.5 with this on your US Multigauge Kiusalas 10.5 to see whether this is accurate.

Also, you could check the perforation on a decimal way to see to which perforation it's the closest.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Promoting the integrity of internet philatelic dealers. Please join us so buyers can buy with confidence.United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Great Americans Stamps Without gums?
  Japan Classics opinions
  U.S. 3c Washington (No Grill) Perf 12 S.C. #207 - No frame line under 3 - Added value?
  Stamp Identification Wanted
  U.S. ~1870 3c Washington (No grill) Perf 12 - Identification please
  U.S. S.C. #599a Perf 10 - Please verify identification
  Grandmother's stamp accumulation
  Nice uncut example of R189 with interesting handstamp cancel
  Separating sheets of stamps
  Could someone please tell me the difference between these stamps?
  counting peaks and valleys of die cut stamps (example flag over porch)
  U.S. 1920s 2c Washington Perf 11 - 19 x 21.9 mm - What is Scott Number please
  U.S. 1893 10c S.C. #237 - Double Transfer C.V. $13.50?
  U.S. 1861 1c S.C. #63 - What is this cancel?
  Using Descriptive Titles to Help the Reader, and Search Engines
  "Funny they do this" .......... "my 2018 version"
  Never found ths before..Scott 275
  Franklin 1c stamp and washington 7c stamp
  U.S. 3c. Washington - S.C. #10 or #11?
  U.S. 1847 Benjamin Franklin 5c S.C. #1 - Color?
  Australian Coil Stamps
  UK variety missing 5d
  Mis-Identified ebay listings
  Scott 539 on eBay - weird bidding
  Recent Revenue Acquisitions

  Republic of China (Taiwan) Stamp Engravers
  U.S. ~1870 3c Washington (No grill) Perf 12 - Identification please
  US Stamp Give-Away (June 2018, #2)
  Modern Industrial Art and Design
  Japan Classics opinions
  Lakes, Marshes, Mangroves, and Wetlands on stamps
  Stamp Identification Wanted
  Great Americans Stamps Without gums?
  New, Free, US Stamp Album Pages
  My new favourite cover! Sc # 20 I think
  Separating sheets of stamps
  Could someone please tell me the difference between these stamps?
  Grandmother's stamp accumulation
  U.S. 3c Washington (No Grill) Perf 12 S.C. #207 - No frame line under 3 - Added value?
  Printing error on QEII coronation stamp
  U.S. 1920s 2c Washington Perf 11 - 19 x 21.9 mm - What is Scott Number please
  Mathematics on stamps
  Decimal Varieties and Errors
  New South Wales Perfin OS-NSW
  Marine Mammals on Stamps... Dolphins, Whales, Seals, etc
  UK variety missing 5d
  U.S. 1893 10c S.C. #237 - Double Transfer C.V. $13.50?
  U.S. S.C. #599a Perf 10 - Please verify identification
  Reptiles on stamps?
  UK old stamps, cannot determine catalog number

Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2018 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.45 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05